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+---- Thread: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread (/showthread.php?tid=43723)
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - Bobo - 29-03-2016
Well yeah, I might consent EK is underpowered if compared to AB and pricewise, it shouldn't be. But quite possibly, one of next updates would bring some changes.
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - Sargent Q - 29-03-2016
I notice one thing in what you have said there. That you are comparing them based off of their price. These are legendary's. More than anything else in the game the price is determined by the community. If you think that the AB is OP for its price. Its up to you to change that price.
Its the same thing with everything here. People have this mindset of what it sells for right off the bat is what its worth. The AB is in fact the legendary that i have seen change the most in price in my time playing this mod. Stuff like the 1 handed weapons that had the price determined 2 or 3 years ago still have not changed since than. Despite far more people using them now.
Or Plate over Leather. Despite the number that have now dropped and the few amount of people left interested in it the price is still considered at 50 mil. Even if you don't get any offers to that effect.
Oh and for the record. I own a EK and not a AB and I think its fine.
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - keru_90 - 29-03-2016
(29-03-2016, 06:29 PM)Sargent Q Wrote: I notice one thing in what you have said there. That you are comparing them based off of their price. These are legendary's. More than anything else in the game the price is determined by the community. If you think that the AB is OP for its price. Its up to you to change that price.
Its the same thing with everything here. People have this mindset of what it sells for right off the bat is what its worth. The AB is in fact the legendary that i have seen change the most in price in my time playing this mod. Stuff like the 1 handed weapons that had the price determined 2 or 3 years ago still have not changed since than. Despite far more people using them now.
Or Plate over Leather. Despite the number that have now dropped and the few amount of people left interested in it the price is still considered at 50 mil. Even if you don't get any offers to that effect.
Oh and for the record. I own a EK and not a AB and I think its fine.
The price of legendary weapons is determined by the community, true, and it doesn't always reflect its stats. But what i'm trying to say is not about the wrong value given to those items by the players, i'm suggesting changes based on the two sword types and current stats taking game consistency into account. I'll try to rephrase without mentionig price: 2h sword are generally better stat-wise comparing to bastard swords of the same tier. An entry level craftable 2h as swadian greatsword has more damage than an entry level craftable as steel crusader's bastard sword; the best 2h house craftable sword, elegant greatsword, has better stats than justice/injustice, the best house craftable bastard sword. Keeping the game balance consistency would mean having the legendary sword right above the best craftable 2h that is better that the legendary bastard sword right above the best craftable bastard sword. That is the pattern that i followed, not taking price into account, but only stats and "tier".
I'm not saying that EK is bad while AB is good, and i believe when you say you're fine with EK while not owning AB. Of course EK is still a top-tier slashing weapon, being a poor new player i would give my ass for it (but that would be considered a transaction outside of NI, and thus forbidden), i just find it should be at least a tiny bit better than AB considering how all the other 2h swords relate to their bastard counterpart of the same level throughout the mod.
Does my suggestion holds value if i put in this terms?
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - Sargent Q - 29-03-2016
No. Because the EK is not top tier. That's the Durendal. And I think this is where the issue is coming in. People are comparing the EK and AB not even giving consideration to the fact that what they need to be comparing is AB and Durendal.
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - keru_90 - 29-03-2016
(29-03-2016, 07:24 PM)Sargent Q Wrote: No. Because the EK is not top tier. That's the Durendal. And I think this is where the issue is coming in. People are comparing the EK and AB not even giving consideration to the fact that what they need to be comparing is AB and Durendal.
Thank you for your reply. I didn't consider durendal as the proper sword for the comparison, maybe because AB, the top tier weapon for its class, is considered relatively cheap by the community. Is AB just extremely undervalued (in terms of gold) by players? Is it just a common drop, so that is sold not properly considering the stats? I'm now picking up again the price topic, yes, but if AB doesn't need a rebalance how justify its price? I'm just trying to understand, even if the matter is drifting away from the balance matter
In the end it's up to Devs to decide what to do, if AB is really intended to be the absolute best bastard sword then you're right, in comparison to durendal its stats are fine and doesn't need to be changed. I just don't like how the title of top-tier bastard swords is achieved by AB, namely multiple buffs, i'd have just created a brand new legendary (maybe rarer than today's AB) to be the top of it's class. But hey, i'm no one to say how things should be done in this mod
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - Sargent Q - 29-03-2016
Again the price of things in this game doesn't very as much as they should. For reference, The only AB reported as dropped in the last 4 months was winter's. The price is that people refuse to pay more. Even though it is on level with the EK.
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - Ribbed - 29-03-2016
(29-03-2016, 06:08 PM)keru_90 Wrote: Has aurora been overbuffed? Does EK deserve a better spot in the roster of slashing weapons? I'd like to hear other opinions on the matter, feel free to disagree
Ab was way over buffed yes. The 60c buff was already pretty dumb then it got moved to 62c lol
If they needed a bastard on par with durendal then they should of just added a new one in. Not insanely buffing a cheap sword.
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - DR. - 30-03-2016
(29-03-2016, 07:24 PM)Sargent Q Wrote: No. Because the EK is not top tier. That's the Durendal. And I think this is where the issue is coming in. People are comparing the EK and AB not even giving consideration to the fact that what they need to be comparing is AB and Durendal.OK 1st why do Nka, Xen, Tarrod ..... have a Ek just for there sniper as it's been the best for years so no it Ab vs Ek and i did point out how there stats are almost the same. Why do you think it Red still best 2h for sniper.
(29-03-2016, 08:19 PM)Sargent Q Wrote: Again the price of things in this game doesn't very as much as they should. For reference, The only AB reported as dropped in the last 4 months was winter's. The price is that people refuse to pay more. Even though it is on level with the EK.The way it is now i would say Ab better coming for some one that will never sell my Ek that hard to say.
The fact it's longer by 6, 1 more cut, Xbow can use it ow and it a bastard. You think Ek would be better in the 2h department and Ab be a bit faster to make use of bastard with less cut yet there placed being almost the same.
(29-03-2016, 11:11 PM)Ribbed Wrote: Ab was way over buffed yes. The 60c buff was already pretty dumb then it got moved to 62c lolYep... 50c -> 62c it should of just been orange one day with a new bastard put in like how bulwark is now orange... but once a move like that is done cant change it much.
If they needed a bastard on par with durendal then they should of just added a new one in. Not insanely buffing a cheap sword.
I'm don't mind them being same vale but the way there place no one will want a Ek apart from the wealthy that plays sniper. Ab looks like a swiss army knife over Ek
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - Winter - 30-03-2016
(29-03-2016, 11:11 PM)Ribbed Wrote:(29-03-2016, 06:08 PM)keru_90 Wrote: Has aurora been overbuffed? Does EK deserve a better spot in the roster of slashing weapons? I'd like to hear other opinions on the matter, feel free to disagree
Ab was way over buffed yes. The 60c buff was already pretty dumb then it got moved to 62c lol
If they needed a bastard on par with durendal then they should of just added a new one in. Not insanely buffing a cheap sword.
Ah, yes, opinions. Everyone has one. However, let's not let our opinions make our tone... less than friendly.
Aurora Blade wasn't always the cheapo waster a lot of people see it as today and was actually considered on par with VGS/AGS for a fair period of time. Prices rise and fall and should not dictate the stats/tier of a legendary item. You'd be amazed at what many of the common legendaries nowadays used to go for when compared to the prices of top tier items back then... An item that would be worth 7 Sun Pikes now was considered only a few million balance over one then.
In my mind, the stats of the Aurora should be around equal to the EK and its tier closer to that of the AGS/VGS, following the idea of bastards being slightly worse in 2h stats than swords of the same tier to make up for their versatility. I'm all for removing stab altogether on the EK, but I'd like to give a chance for counterarguments and don't really see a compelling reason to remove that from an item that has had it for so long. The stat suggestions so far have been interesting, but we'll see where the discussion goes.
Speaking of the discussion, please try to keep it to stat suggestions, not just throwing out your opinion that things are bad. That doesn't really add much to the conversation.
RE: The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread - keru_90 - 30-03-2016
(30-03-2016, 05:30 AM)Winter Wrote:(29-03-2016, 11:11 PM)Ribbed Wrote:(29-03-2016, 06:08 PM)keru_90 Wrote: Has aurora been overbuffed? Does EK deserve a better spot in the roster of slashing weapons? I'd like to hear other opinions on the matter, feel free to disagree
Ab was way over buffed yes. The 60c buff was already pretty dumb then it got moved to 62c lol
If they needed a bastard on par with durendal then they should of just added a new one in. Not insanely buffing a cheap sword.
Ah, yes, opinions. Everyone has one. However, let's not let our opinions make our tone... less than friendly.
Aurora Blade wasn't always the cheapo waster a lot of people see it as today and was actually considered on par with VGS/AGS for a fair period of time. Prices rise and fall and should not dictate the stats/tier of a legendary item. You'd be amazed at what many of the common legendaries nowadays used to go for when compared to the prices of top tier items back then... An item that would be worth 7 Sun Pikes now was considered only a few million balance over one then.
In my mind, the stats of the Aurora should be around equal to the EK and its tier closer to that of the AGS/VGS, following the idea of bastards being slightly worse in 2h stats than swords of the same tier to make up for their versatility. I'm all for removing stab altogether on the EK, but I'd like to give a chance for counterarguments and don't really see a compelling reason to remove that from an item that has had it for so long. The stat suggestions so far have been interesting, but we'll see where the discussion goes.
Speaking of the discussion, please try to keep it to stat suggestions, not just throwing out your opinion that things are bad. That doesn't really add much to the conversation.
Thank you Winter, is nice to have a developer's insight on the matter. If you intended Aurora as the top tier bastard sword then its stats are fine right now related to the best 2h swords aviable, and now i understand that the value given by the community should not be relevant. But still, i personally feel the EK lacks an identity right now: VGS/AGS is a slashing 2h, Aurora is the jack of all trades, and EK is the thing that rich players equip on archers to "show off". Changes would be welcome to EK just to give the item a more "unique" essence, to have somenthing that is not just the 2h version of aurora with similar stats but different graphic model. Don't get me wrong, i'm saying to make EK better because AB is good, but just make the 2 sword a bit different stat-wise, since a direct comparison is not possible as we already established that AB is on a "higher tier" on the legendary scale. How to make it different is for you to decide (in the hypothesis you really feel such a change to be necessary), but i personally like the stab removal in favour of a speed/damge buff, as someone already suggested.
Just for the sake of understanding, i'm not saying any item is bad or something like that, i'm just trying to justify why the changes suggested may be welcome. I'm not very experienced in NI, i played for just 3 months, so the way i precieve things may not be the same of a veteran player that saw the evolution of the mod throughout years. I'm open to confrontation, tell me what you think