Opinions about the Death Penalty?

[Freddie]

Death penalty against crime?

Certainly not.

Why you may ask? Well here is my Opinion about it.

Even used against the worst of the worst,its a way of Revenge, which no constitutional State should consider.


As a way to scare people from commiting crime?
There are no offical Statistics that proof,that an active Death Penalty rule lowered the overall crimerrate.


But there are report of Country having a minor to mayor less crimerate after suspending the Death Penalty.


It also offers not a single way for Criminals to actually improve and not commit any other Crimes.


Also lets take a look at some current Stuff. Turkey.

They want to reintroduce the Death Penalty. Erdogan is quite dictatorial. I´m pretty sure he would have no worries about changing the Death Penalty,so that even minor Thieves have to face it.Which ultimatley would lead into the people getting completley scared.

Let´s also dont forget failed Death penaltys leading into hours of pain for the Criminal.
Or the poor people getting killed due to miscarriage of justice.


That´s just my opinion.

It is not just to 'scare' people from crime, it is to remove highly dangerous and 'evil' humans beings from this world,because of the horrific crimes they commited, it also closes a door for the victims family, and probably the general public
edit* the thing that normally happens is finding a suitable vein, which has taken hours, I don't think there has been any 'hours of pain', unless you mean emotional pain

[Winter]

Let´s also dont forget failed Death penaltys leading into hours of pain for the Criminal.
Or the poor people getting killed due to miscarriage of justice.

I am not saying I am for the death penalty or that your opinions are wrong, but I'd like to see citations for some of your arguments.  I'll work backwards because for some reason that works best for me.

The primary procedure nowadays is a single injection of a lethal dose of anesthetic as opposed to the previously popular three shot system I believe you are referring to, in which it was an anesthetic followed by pancuronium bromide as a paralytic, and finally potassium chloride that actually stopped the heart.  In this method, however, it would still not be hours of pain.  To which method are you referring in this portion, and why would we assume that because one method of carrying out the death penalty can be faulty, it is wrong in all forms?

The second part about "poor people" and "miscarriage of justice" is very emotionally charged but has little logical substance.  As far as I am aware, there have not been recent cases in which someone is retroactively proven innocent.  With modern forensic sciences it would be quite hard for someone to be wrongly condemned to the death penalty, especially given that anyone working a "death penalty" case is unlikely to toss it around without solid evidence and the sheer number of appeals mean many people have to unanimously agree that the evidence proves "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that the person is guilty.  Then again, this part of the argument is in reference to the US judicial system.  I do not know how your country works or what your history with the death penalty is.

I don't know much about the judicial structure of Turkey, but if a single man can make it so that thieves are executed... well... that sucks, to put it lightly, but it doesn't mean allowing the death penalty in other places for other crimes is wrong.

You are correct in that it does not allow criminals to "improve," but it certainly is effective in making sure they do not commit any more crimes.

There have been many studies on whether or not the death penalty really lowers crime rates.  Some affirm, some deny, so I can't really conclusively weigh in on this point.

The moral side of this argument is infinitely debatable because there is no standard morality.  Such arguments are pointless as every culture has different values, as do the people within those cultures.  One group not supporting the death penalty on grounds of their version of morality does not prove it is immoral.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do disagree with some of your arguments.

[Alphaa]

It´s an easy way to get rid of real bad people, mass murderers e.g or terrorists. And I´d rather have those guys dead than sitting in jail somewhere, just so they won´t annoy people anymore that would like to live in peace. Easy.

[Lirania]

Let´s also dont forget failed Death penaltys leading into hours of pain for the Criminal.
Or the poor people getting killed due to miscarriage of justice.

I am not saying I am for the death penalty or that your opinions are wrong, but I'd like to see citations for some of your arguments.  I'll work backwards because for some reason that works best for me.

The primary procedure nowadays is a single injection of a lethal dose of anesthetic as opposed to the previously popular three shot system I believe you are referring to, in which it was an anesthetic followed by pancuronium bromide as a paralytic, and finally potassium chloride that actually stopped the heart.  In this method, however, it would still not be hours of pain.  To which method are you referring in this portion, and why would we assume that because one method of carrying out the death penalty can be faulty, it is wrong in all forms?

The second part about "poor people" and "miscarriage of justice" is very emotionally charged but has little logical substance.  As far as I am aware, there have not been recent cases in which someone is retroactively proven innocent.  With modern forensic sciences it would be quite hard for someone to be wrongly condemned to the death penalty, especially given that anyone working a "death penalty" case is unlikely to toss it around without solid evidence and the sheer number of appeals mean many people have to unanimously agree that the evidence proves "beyond a shadow of a doubt" that the person is guilty.  Then again, this part of the argument is in reference to the US judicial system.  I do not know how your country works or what your history with the death penalty is.

I don't know much about the judicial structure of Turkey, but if a single man can make it so that thieves are executed... well... that sucks, to put it lightly, but it doesn't mean allowing the death penalty in other places for other crimes is wrong.

You are correct in that it does not allow criminals to "improve," but it certainly is effective in making sure they do not commit any more crimes.

There have been many studies on whether or not the death penalty really lowers crime rates.  Some affirm, some deny, so I can't really conclusively weigh in on this point.

The moral side of this argument is infinitely debatable because there is no standard morality.  Such arguments are pointless as every culture has different values, as do the people within those cultures.  One group not supporting the death penalty on grounds of their version of morality does not prove it is immoral.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do disagree with some of your arguments.

First i want to thank you for the way you responded to my rather bad written Opinion,i was kinda in a rush,but lets see if i can answer some of your concerns/questions. Regarding to "failed execution leading to hours of pain" the first thing that comes up in my mind is the failed Execution of "Romell Broom" sentenced to death for raping and killing a 14 year old girl.

The execution failed because they couldn´t find a proper Vene. After 2 hours they stopped the attempted Execution and he left the Room with punctured Venes and swollen Limbs. I assume its quite painful to get "stabbed" over and over with a Syringe.
No clue how they even failed that one. Its an example of a failed Exection.

Broom himself even said "I was screaming in pain,i was crying. I couldnt move my arms due to the various stabs in my arm"

But keep in mind,this happened in the USA and im sitting in germany,and we all know how media´s love to turn around storys to make it more attractive.


In regards to the "miscarriage of justice" i have Carlos DeLuna as an example,executed 1989 with 27 years. He was accused of murdering "Wanda Lopez" in 1983. After 20 Years it was clear,that he had nothing to do with the death of Wanda Lopez. 

But yeah,Winter,you´re probably right that it wont happen so easily in todays time. But it can happen.


Its hard to find proper Stuides about how a active Death Penalty rule affects the Population. In germany there are alot of them,some they do some don´t. There are also rumors about the Government having its "hands" in thoose Studies.As you already said.

Im not really experienced with Turkeys System. But i can pretty much tell Erdogan loves to enforce his Power. The recent attempted coup,just showed it. And he is the most powerful men in his country and he loves to bend the rules to his advantages.
No i do not have anything against Turkey,im just worried about how its going on there and what Erdogan does with Germany aswell,just as a side note before someone comes up.




About the "moral side" i can only agree with you. I´m pretty sure,if someone would rape and kill my daughter,i would love to see that man get executed. But right now,i´m not in that position to judge about that.


Everyone has his own opinions,thank you Winter for sharing yours
Hope i could clear some things up.

[Malong]

It also offers not a single way for Criminals to actually improve and not commit any other Crimes...They want to reintroduce the Death Penalty. Erdogan is quite dictatorial. I´m pretty sure he would have no worries about changing the Death Penalty,so that even minor Thieves have to face it.

I'd say them being dead is a pretty big deterrent to not committing any other crimes. The people in this thread that have supported it have stated only when it's beyond any doubt. This means the burden of proof is set more highly, but it's worth it in my mind. About the improvement and not committing other crimes, to reiterate: in the US, the recidivism rate from 400k people released in 2005 (in the form of rearrest) is a bit over 2 in 3 within 3 years, and a bit over 3 in 4 within 5 years. Those are horrible rates.

First i want to thank you for the way you responded to my rather bad written Opinion,i was kinda in a rush,but lets see if i can answer some of your concerns/questions. Regarding to "failed execution leading to hours of pain" the first thing that comes up in my mind is the failed Execution of "Romell Broom" sentenced to death for raping and killing a 14 year old girl.

The execution failed because they couldn´t find a proper Vene. After 2 hours they stopped the attempted Execution and he left the Room with punctured Venes and swollen Limbs. I assume its quite painful to get "stabbed" over and over with a Syringe.
No clue how they even failed that one. Its an example of a failed Exection.

Broom himself even said "I was screaming in pain,i was crying. I couldnt move my arms due to the various stabs in my arm"

But keep in mind,this happened in the USA and im sitting in germany,and we all know how media´s love to turn around storys to make it more attractive.

I can't imagine how painful that must be! I hope he didn't suffer as much as the 14 year old girl he raped and murdered! </sarcasm>
Seriously though, if you want to prevent their suffering, just have them kneel over a mass grave, shoot them in the head, and kick them into the pit. Bang, problem solved (literally).

In regards to the "miscarriage of justice" i have Carlos DeLuna as an example,executed 1989 with 27 years. He was accused of murdering "Wanda Lopez" in 1983. After 20 Years it was clear,that he had nothing to do with the death of Wanda Lopez.

Yeah, again, the few people who supported this added the "beyond any doubt" phrase. Also, forensics has improved quite a bit from 1983 when the crime happened.

[Bobo]

(...) I hope he didn't suffer as much as the 14 year old girl he raped and murdered! </sarcasm>
Seriously though, if you want to prevent their suffering, just have them kneel over a mass grave, shoot them in the head, and kick them into the pit. Bang, problem solved (literally). (...)

Kudos to Malong

[Lirania]

I just want to make clear,that it was not my intention to protect People raping and killing other humans!

[Freddie]

It´s an easy way to get rid of real bad people, mass murderers e.g or terrorists. And I´d rather have those guys dead than sitting in jail somewhere, just so they won´t annoy people anymore that would like to live in peace. Easy.

Nice way to put it

---

(...) I hope he didn't suffer as much as the 14 year old girl he raped and murdered! </sarcasm>
Seriously though, if you want to prevent their suffering, just have them kneel over a mass grave, shoot them in the head, and kick them into the pit. Bang, problem solved (literally). (...)

It's true though

[Malong]

I just want to make clear,that it was not my intention to protect People raping and killing other humans!

You seemed to pick a bad example then. But anyway, who cares how criminals sentenced to death feel? If they gave half as much consideration to their victims as you are giving now, they would not be sentenced to death in the first place. This entire situation of worrying about how criminals feel would be avoided, and the point would be moot.

[Kaasovic]

Who cares about people that will go to prison over and over again, just like terrorists, rapists and murderers. Might as well end their lifes to protect civilization from these clowns. I dont care how they will come to their end, but it should be based on what they did. Let them suffer.