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+--- Thread: Map voting on normal mode. :~( (/showthread.php?tid=1953)
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Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - [WCS] Warborn - 25-04-2012
I think map vote for hardmode is good, and it should be integrated...
Usually when people are on hard servers, they are more involved in team play.
Normal mode is full of rambo beginners.
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - zeanomourph - 25-04-2012
Just my 2c, I agree with no more voting. It does come in very handy sometimes, like getting off that troll rand gen map with no soup/ammo/shrine etc lol. But really ever since VLKA got to odin on great hall and our strategy was passed on to the benefit of fellow Swadians...
All I ever see now is great hall and I'm sick to death of it. Do people think that at tier2 using that strat, minus voice teamwork on ventrilo, they will magically get to wave 16+?
The game is about teamwork, not choosing the right map to get to high waves. VLKA beat prince first attempt on Castle and Village, and it was because of strategy, knowing our place on the battlefield and teamwork. Not because the map makes it easier. Most of us hadn't even played Castle more than 5 times.
The only reason you feel like you get so much further on GH is because it is such an enclosed map, it forces you into a group and makes you work together- Like you should be doing on every other map even where there is space to run free..
Play the game, don't just play the maps.
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - clickeverywhere - 25-04-2012
+1 to Zeanomourph's comment. This is how I personally feel. Too many people don't even seem to look at the map when they start playing it, so of course they wouldn't find good strategic locations. This was the exact same thing that happened pre-Great Hall and pre-cavalry removal. Players just rush in regardless of what map they are playing until somebody "discovers" good locations to fight (and even then it's a problem of getting people to work together and actually shield and properly get into a role/not block overhead swingers).
This happened when there was the Jeldan Citadel room. A few people would have to log on and try to influence the rest of the players on the server to stay in the room after wave 6 and it was managed by example showing how effective it was. But nobody ever wanted to shield, and nobody ever wanted to not be the one attacking and getting the kills even if they were T1 or 2 while there were T3s who could do the job properly, and so often got in the way. There was the Lake Town spot discovered by Sphinx which required only two shielders, and when that got removed people immediately started whining without considering new locations. This happened back in town as well. And then when town got "nerfed" people complained, but there were some immediately obvious spots to camp that came into use after the so-called nerf that were technically much better. After Town became a smoldering pile of rubble, people once again complained, and then City became the spot of choice. After a while city was also changed (not without massive moaning on the forums), but I believe at that time new maps were implemented and old maps were edited to all have narrow choke points. The problem was that everybody was too fixated on the map rather than the strategy, which was pretty obvious. As it is now, every map in rotation has at least one easily defensible spot (if I recall correctly), the real issue is getting people to use those spots instead of blindly choosing the same map over and over again.
Even at T2, with coordination players would at the very least be able to reach wave 12 with high survival rates if they defended properly with a shield line. At the very least they wouldn't all wipe on berserkers/skirmishers/zweihanders. As a firm advocate of pragmatism, it is difficult for me to grasp the reasons for this behavior. Defending together in one spot is so much easier and beneficial than charging head-on into the enemy spawn. Time spent dead is time spent not earning assist experience, which is particularly important for lower level players.
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - Blondin - 25-04-2012
Agreed with Click, actually, it's not really new, for me it has always been like this in NI, even before Jeldan, there was swadian village with the "pony tactics"
Problem now is accentuated, because of 2/3 reasons, there is a lot of new players (necessarily, they are not used to map and to NI simple strategies), a certain number of former players no longer play, and there is fewer High level/experienced players playing on normal mod.
Sometimes, when I go normal mod, I just quit because I know it will be too hard to "learn" to players how they can do it (sometimes even ragequit after they walked 4 times in a raw on my cade), sometimes I take the time to show some tips to new ppl, to explain simple tactics, told them to not rush and charge like mindless nords, to group up and play like a team.
So yeah remove map vote, but help new ppl
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - Lanseril - 26-04-2012
I actually disagree with most of the posters so far -- we shouldn't reduce map voting. Most of the arguments against map voting so far has been centered around an overplayed map (currently Great Hall), but with the removal of private servers in the coming week, Hande and the other devs will be able to update maps with much greater frequency. If a map becomes too "beatable" like Great Hall does using the VLKA strategy, the devs will be able to nip it in the bud more quickly before it becomes as overplayed as these maps have been in the past.
On the other hand, we've all seen servers completely clear out when an unpopular map is reached. This is especially an problem for hard mode, when often it can be difficult to get enough inertia going to fill a server to begin with. There are many cases where individuals can make map voting annoying, but on the whole I know I personally play on voting-enabled servers a lot more often than non-voting servers, and with good reasons.
Lastly, now that we had many redundant servers in EU, NA, and AUS, I suggest that we establish different map server types, which is the norm in most other FPSes (where clans often run multiple servers for just this reason). Rather than simply having EUs 1-10 all being the same, for instance, we should have 3 types of map servers:
* Rotation map servers, with a fixed, non-votable map rotation (EU_Normal_Rotation1-4);
* Voting map servers, with open map voting in addition to the rotation (EU_Normal_Voting1-4); and
* Popular map servers, playing the most popular map 24/7 with no in-server voting, with the map chosen being updated monthly via forum poll (EU_Normal_GreatHall1-2).
This would allow players to easily sort themselves via their own map preferences, and cut down on griefing and bickering over map votes and rotations.
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - [WCS] Warborn - 26-04-2012
I think no matter what, most of the community goes for the most populated server at the time, though it is an interesting idea. Map of the month.... hmmm
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - Inquisitioner - 26-04-2012
(26-04-2012, 12:41 AM)Lanseril link Wrote: I actually disagree with most of the posters so far -- we shouldn't reduce map voting. Most of the arguments against map voting so far has been centered around an overplayed map (currently Great Hall), but with the removal of private servers in the coming week, Hande and the other devs will be able to update maps with much greater frequency. If a map becomes too "beatable" like Great Hall does using the VLKA strategy, the devs will be able to nip it in the bud more quickly before it becomes as overplayed as these maps have been in the past.
On the other hand, we've all seen servers completely clear out when an unpopular map is reached. This is especially an problem for hard mode, when often it can be difficult to get enough inertia going to fill a server to begin with. There are many cases where individuals can make map voting annoying, but on the whole I know I personally play on voting-enabled servers a lot more often than non-voting servers, and with good reasons.
Lastly, now that we had many redundant servers in EU, NA, and AUS, I suggest that we establish different map server types, which is the norm in most other FPSes (where clans often run multiple servers for just this reason). Rather than simply having EUs 1-10 all being the same, for instance, we should have 3 types of map servers:
* Rotation map servers, with a fixed, non-votable map rotation (EU_Normal_Rotation1-4);
* Voting map servers, with open map voting in addition to the rotation (EU_Normal_Voting1-4); and
* Popular map servers, playing the most popular map 24/7 with no in-server voting, with the map chosen being updated monthly via forum poll (EU_Normal_GreatHall1-2).
This would allow players to easily sort themselves via their own map preferences, and cut down on griefing and bickering over map votes and rotations.
Was thinking something in this direction as well. Seems reasonable and beneficial for everyone.
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - Sparhawk - 27-04-2012
(25-04-2012, 02:55 AM)Nimueh link Wrote: I think map vote for hardmode is good, and it should be integrated...
Usually when people are on hard servers, they are more involved in team play.
Normal mode is full of rambo beginners.
OK, so you are all hard mode vets who sneer at the redshirts, fine, but you forget that you were all "rambo begginers" once.
Great Hall is the easiest map for new players to level on hence.......they play it a lot!! Believe it or not, I got a full server of redshirts who had NO cades to work together in a shieldwall and we got to skirmishers. I had five of them standing in a row shielding, it was quite fun really. I have done this quite a few times actually.
In my opinion it is the higher level dolts that do not use teamwork in Normal. They run around doing their own thing and not listening to me tell them to "GET BACK TO THE WALL!". I laugh very hard when they die to tell the truth. It serves them right for getting the rest of the team killed.
To sum up, map voting is fine by me. It's the idiot higher level players who need to leave.
Re: Map voting on normal mode. :~( - xFirestormx - 27-04-2012
Quote: I laugh very hard when they die to tell the truth. It serves them right for getting the rest of the team killed.The highest of fives for that. Same thing i do :p
I for one will be happy for one once map voting is gone. Great hall is a good map, buggy, but promising, but i am sick of it right now since it is being overplayed. A lot of red tunics are just as bad as the veterans, mainly because they don't know any better since you can be a god in single player. All maps are good for anyone, even caravan ambush, and i feel you really lose appreciation for higher class levels when you farm xp on great hall. I started my first character on beach assault, no one else on the server, and got the shit kicked out of my by farmers and levy militia for the first day or 2 until i had enough xp and class points for infantry, then heavy infantry, etc. That feeling when you realize you managed to pass the third wave without dying for the first time ever......... it never leaves you ;p
More importantly, once map voting is gone great hall will feel like a privilege instead of constantly being spammed