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+---- Thread: Injustice and justice (/showthread.php?tid=30341)
Re: Injustice and justice - Sargent Q - 22-10-2014
(22-10-2014, 03:18 AM)WOODZ link Wrote: but it this way i can make Swadian Heavy Lamellar,Plate Mittens,even a Swadian Surcoat Overmail for ranger and sell it for all most 100% form what is made from
make a vote if my idea is wrong :?
Depends on cost AND DEMAND. The supply ingame exceeds the demand. I don't think you will get enough people to like it without making it at least as good as the Aurora Blade. You want another example of this sort of thing? The VHTA's. Note to Winter, This is not a nother buff please post. Anyway, The VHTA's are easily twice the cost of CTS, yet not a lot of people like them over CTS. CTS are in much higher demand than the VHTA's but the price is at least half of the price of the VHTA's. It all comes back to Supply and Demand.
Re: Injustice and justice - madjsoh - 22-10-2014
to find good reason for a significant injustice buff in retaliation to the recent changes to the aurora blade you would have to go back quite some time in to NI history.
a few months ago, the aurora blade was merely a joke weapon, in fact there is a dev response to this sword which even stated that the aurora blade was meant to stay...well shit and would NEVER receive a buff (if i find the actual quote i'll add it in)
the Injustice was originally viewed as a craftable EK being slightly worse in all areas. but overall better bang for your buck, and this is why many were originally created (or at least why Benschie made his)
there was a LOT of commotion over the old stats of the injustice many of whom believed it to be too short/slow for its price tag (fair enough)
the last patch addressed this (or did it?) by making it a bastard sword, there's not much to say on this other than it made a mediocre 2h into a mediocre 2h with the ability to use a shield and have it be even worse.
hence in my opinion, this sword may need to be looked at again even though it's previous contender weapons such as the boarding axe and butcher have been nerfed leaving this thing out on it's own in an awkward space that it just doesn't seem to fit.
back to comparing it to the aurora blade...well the aurora is probably better despite the lower damage, we all know length and speed can and do in the case of legacy v durendal does beat damage. and then on top of this, the aurora blade is use-able by all. yes yes it's legendary but then again so is the EK and it's stats are in some cases worse than the high tier house craftables.
i won't delve into current pricing's on the two swords but it seems to me that a major concern in the OP is the drop between selling and crafting price, the simple answer to this is that no one will pay the crafting cost for a 2nd hand weapon as they might aswell just craft their own if they are going to pay full price. i will say that the price drop for this sword is a tad higher than other craftable weapons and this is unfortunately a reflection on its stats which in my opinion need to be looked at a third time.
Re: Injustice and justice - Winter - 22-10-2014
(22-10-2014, 04:19 AM)madjosh link Wrote: a few months ago, the aurora blade was merely a joke weapon, in fact there is a dev response to this sword which even stated that the aurora blade was meant to stay...well shit and would NEVER receive a buff (if i find the actual quote i'll add it in)
Since the Aurora Blade has found a new model and is no longer a "purple dildo" that did not fit into the mod, this has been changed.
(22-10-2014, 04:19 AM)madjosh link Wrote: the Injustice was originally viewed as a craftable EK being slightly worse in all areas. but overall better bang for your buck, and this is why many were originally created (or at least why Benschie made his)
there was a LOT of commotion over the old stats of the injustice many of whom believed it to be too short/slow for its price tag (fair enough)
the last patch addressed this (or did it?) by making it a bastard sword, there's not much to say on this other than it made a mediocre 2h into a mediocre 2h with the ability to use a shield and have it be even worse.
A second patch shortly after also gave it +2 cut damage, bringing it up to the same damage value as the Eastern Katana. I cannot remember anyone saying that the In/Justice is meant to be a house crafted replacement to the EK, but that seems irrelevant to the current conversation as the stats of just about every cut weapon have drastically changed. As shown before, even the Aurora Blade was put to a new position in the weapon hierarchy.
(22-10-2014, 04:19 AM)madjosh link Wrote: back to comparing it to the aurora blade...well the aurora is probably better despite the lower damage, we all know length and speed can and do in the case of legacy v durendal does beat damage. and then on top of this, the aurora blade is use-able by all. yes yes it's legendary but then again so is the EK and it's stats are in some cases worse than the high tier house craftables.
Eh.... The Durendal is actually faster than the Legacy
I do very much agree about length, though. This is why the In/Justice was allowed to have superior damage in the first place - the Aurora had a massive advantage in length. It is also worth noting that the Aurora Blade, along with several other "old" items, may be having their class requirements adjusted as they were set long ago when the game was extremely different. This isn't definite, but is a possibility as the developer team continues to balance items.(22-10-2014, 04:19 AM)madjosh link Wrote: i won't delve into current pricing's on the two swords but it seems to me that a major concern in the OP is the drop between selling and crafting price, the simple answer to this is that no one will pay the crafting cost for a 2nd hand weapon as they might aswell just craft their own if they are going to pay full price. i will say that the price drop for this sword is a tad higher than other craftable weapons and this is unfortunately a reflection on its stats which in my opinion need to be looked at a third time.
This is absolute truth. However, I feel like a huge buff to speed like mentioned in the OP (95 to 108) would not be a solution to this problem... It seems a lot like a knee-jerk "my item isn't selling for what I want it to so let's make it super OP" sort of thing. The In/Justice, like other current items, will be adjusted as necessary. As stated before, I feel a slight buff from 57/95 to something more like 58 or 59/97 or 99 would be more balanced, as it would keep it in proper alignment with both the Aurora Blade and the other house crafted two hand items.
Re: Injustice and justice - DR. - 22-10-2014
im good with that but i would be better if all tr4 could use it so maybe be
Injustice
Stats
Spd rtng98Weapon +3
length118Swing
damage57Weight3
Thrust damage40
and commando,sniper,sharpshooter and pikeman can use it
if this happens it will make the weapon wanted my sniper and commandos
so plez
Re: Injustice and justice - Terath - 22-10-2014
(22-10-2014, 05:06 AM)WOODZ link Wrote: im good with that but i would be better if all tr4 could use it so maybe be
Injustice
Stats
Spd rtng98Weapon +3
length118Swing
damage57Weight3
Thrust damage40
and commando,sniper,sharpshooter and pikeman can use it
if this happens it will make the weapon wanted my sniper and commandos
so plez
wat
That would inadvertently make it the most wanted weapon in the game. It's (arguably) better than the aurora blade, and you want all classes to use it? That's a borderline insane suggestion.
Let's compare;
(in)Justice
Damage: 57 Cut, 40 Pierce
Speed: 95
Length: 118
Weight: 2.75
Useable By: Commando
Swing Damage: 55 cut
Thrust Damage: 44 pierce
Length: 140
Speed: 100
Weight: 2.3
While the damage should remain (maybe) untouched, the speed is a small, small issue. To be honest, though, the developers could literally leave the stats alone and only a very small amount of people would actually care and/or notice the difference in speed.
Also, I'd like to point out that while stabbing is unorthodox behind a shieldwall, cade or the like - it's still a damage type, and the Aurora blade has a little bit more of it; this does mean that the Aurora Blade has more speed and more pierce than Injustice. It may seem like Injustice is trading stab for cut, but there's a little bit more being added to stab damage on Aurora's side. While another small complaint by very few people, it's still a tiny "issue" that may need to be looked at.
That and the Aurora Blade looks beastly now. Good job, Maroon.
Re: Injustice and justice - Tsukiyomi - 22-10-2014
I'm confused as to what the actual issue is here. Looking at the stats and crafting cost everything seems fine. 57c puts it above the other crafted swords of lesser value while keeping it under the damage of the much nicer pure 2h swords while giving you the option of using a shield.
So the issue is that a legendary weapon is better than a crafted of the same type? Isn't that how it's supposed to be? They are called "legendary" after all...
If the issue is that you feel the stone maul is better then maybe you just chose incorrectly when deciding which weapon to craft. Cut and blunt type weapons are not meant to fill the same roles and be equal in every way - this is probably never going to change. Blunt weapons like the maul will always be better against heavy armor and shields while cut weapons are better for quickly taking out softer targets due to their much higher speed.
That brings me to the last complaint - that it doesn't sell for it's crafting cost. Guess what; pretty much nothing sells for it's crafting cost, especially not items that aren't in high demand.
The weapon seems fine as it is. It's a bastard sword, not a true 1h or 2h so I see no reason why it should be buffed in both strength and speed making it into this amazing 1h and outstanding 2h. It's meant to be versatile, not the best 1h and 2h at once - decent at both.
If you were to buff it we'd be back at the same place as before the patch. For those who don't remember the Elegant Greatsword was 57c and ~8mil to craft. At that time it was considered worthless as the In/Justice were ~2-3mil less to craft and about the same stats. Now there is actually a division between these weapons that suits the price difference. This leaves room to buff the In/Justice MAYBE 1-2 damage or speed but honestly... do you really think that will make this weapon more desirable? Any more and you remove the buffer between the tiers of weapons and we'll just see this exact debate again (only it will be some butthurt EGS owner crying about how the In/Justice is so much less to cost and just as good).
Re: Injustice and justice - DR. - 22-10-2014
ok i have a idea looking at this from Winter (I cannot remember anyone saying that the In/Justice is meant to be a house crafted replacement to the EK) make it that :?
old
Weapon length118
Swing damage57
Weight3Thrust
damage40Spd
rtng95
new
Injustice
Weight: 3.0 maybe 4 because it a 2h and it longer idk
Speed Rating: 101
Weapon Reach: 127
Swing Damage: 57c
Thrust Damage: 40p
ek stats
Weight: 1.0
Speed Rating: 101
Weapon Reach: 136
Swing Damage: 60c
Thrust Damage: 40p
Elegant Greatsword
Weight: 2.75
Speed Rating: 97
Weapon Reach: 120
Swing Damage: 62c
Thrust Damage: 46p
Elegant FlambergeWeight: 2.75
Speed Rating: 90
Weapon Reach: 166
Swing Damage: 60c
Thrust Damage: 44p
and it a 2h not Bastard Sword
Re: Injustice and justice - Slayer - 22-10-2014
The injustice is a shitty weapon overall anyway.
Why is it a bastard sword? No idea
Why is it not a 2h primary? No idea
Fact is, the sword is a piece of crap that should be changed to a 2h primary and just buff it by a cut or 2. Other then that there is absolutely no point to this weapon and It should be avoided.
Re: Injustice and justice - DeadOtter - 22-10-2014
if all these other swords your stating are better why did you not make one of them rather than the injustice/justice? is this common sense or am i missing something?
Re: Injustice and justice - madjsoh - 22-10-2014
note that many of these swords were made some time ago before these other newer weapons were craftables so you cant blame them for crafting a sword that has simply been outdone as the newer craftables were introduced and the older ones pushed to the side. you also cant blame them for choosing to craft a bastard sword as it was originally a 2H only sword. many of it's owners were shocked to see the change that happened...i mean heck if i made what was once one of the better 2h swords and the next patch i was told it is going to remain crap because they decided it would be better as a bastard sword i'd probably want my money back