(22-12-2019, 04:10 PM)Cygan Wrote: Hoplite
"Game modes I think this hero does best at (in order)
Rag, Cav, Hard, Normal"
Remove cav from here. Elegy is too short to be usefull on cav. Hoplite is clearly the best.

(22-12-2019, 03:27 PM)Woody Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 02:38 PM)Forward Wrote: So I'm talking from perspective for class to being effective (clear as fast as possible and don't wipe) on public Ragnarok run with best weapons and armours available from pick-up.

Nice to see you read this.

(22-12-2019, 01:15 PM)Woody Wrote: What is the most op class?

Variables like what mode you are playing matters heavily. Chosen Marksman would probably be the most op class vs Odin but vs wave 1 normal using a Dead Shot is maybe a bit overkill. Classes like Sentinel with very fast 1h's that can still 1 shot bots would be considered more op in that area of the game. 

Most if not all classes could be considered op in their field. It comes down to what is your goal as I'm sure you can find the most Op class that suits your play style. 

(22-12-2019, 04:47 PM)Forward Wrote: We all can agree that people goal in this game is maximizing loot and minimizing time and effort. That would be objective definition for best strategy therefore best classes suitable for that strategy would be objectively best overall.

And when you're including high or low class gear price (as pros or cons) its already defining good/bad classes. Cheap class gear rather tells you about class being inefficient at battlefield, and vise versa.

1. Your attitude (not being afk etc...) 
   
2. The map
   
3. Your game sense (understanding when and when not to peek for example) 
   
4. The gear your have
   
5. The class you are
   

Spoiler

(22-12-2019, 04:44 PM)Kriegstofu Wrote: so the best way to solve this conflict is by stating that every class is just as good as any other. hence we have 16 winners and no losers.

(22-12-2019, 05:59 PM)Malong Wrote: Boom. Done.

Spoiler

(22-12-2019, 06:02 PM)Woody Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 05:59 PM)Malong Wrote: Boom. Done.

Spoiler

I'm surprised the torch and a white armour did not make SS. I'm disappointed.

(22-12-2019, 06:07 PM)Malong Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 06:02 PM)Woody Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 05:59 PM)Malong Wrote: Boom. Done.

Spoiler

I'm surprised the torch and a white armour did not make SS. I'm disappointed.

I know you're joking (I hope), but for anyone that might not understand: the images are of hero-locked items to represent their respective hero class; not the item.

For items, Teutonic Robe and Torch would obviously be S+ tier.

(22-12-2019, 05:53 PM)Woody Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 04:47 PM)Forward Wrote: We all can agree that people goal in this game is maximizing loot and minimizing time and effort. That would be objective definition for best strategy therefore best classes suitable for that strategy would be objectively best overall.

And when you're including high or low class gear price (as pros or cons) its already defining good/bad classes. Cheap class gear rather tells you about class being inefficient at battlefield, and vise versa.

Really? Ok, I'll go there.

Playing as Sentry so a "not suitable class" with 300+ ping I had just about the same amount of kills as you playing as Mp with the daggers you like so much. Objectively everyone below me in kills was "bad" (in this a run). This could include everyone on that run as if I did have good ping I would have had almost doubled my kills going from how slow ping makes bows etc... 

Out of the 2 options here what it is?

Is my skill that much greater than yours I can play a "not suitable class" with 300+ ping and get just about as much kills as you. 
or
Classes don't affect gameplay as much as you make out.

What I think matters the most in terms of "maximizing loot and minimizing time" is 

In order

1. Your attitude (not being afk etc...) 
   
2. The map
   
3. Your game sense (understanding when and when not to peek for example) 
   
4. The gear your have
   
5. The class you are
   

Playing for "maximizing loot and minimizing time" is subjective... You have no evidence everyone does this to this extreme. People like myself are will to play classes that have tools or have experiences other you claim to be the only ones we need simply don't offer. My attitude + game sense and I guess gear to some point impacted my kill count or usefulness so much more than the class it self to the point I could play any tr4 and probably got more kills than 1/4 maybe even 1/2 of that team we just had. 

I and others would rather play a class we find enjoyable so we can be the most effective in terms of attitude we bring to the run. Not everyone feels my way or your way it's subjective... I like the idea of Sentry but do I think its the most suitable class for what I just did? No. I don't care about being that 100% of "maximizing loot" what matters to me is I enjoyed using my Pride and using my H-bow more than if I just played my Warden with Tempest. 
 

(22-12-2019, 06:10 PM)Woody Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 06:07 PM)Malong Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 06:02 PM)Woody Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 05:59 PM)Malong Wrote: Boom. Done.

Spoiler

I'm surprised the torch and a white armour did not make SS. I'm disappointed.

I know you're joking (I hope), but for anyone that might not understand: the images are of hero-locked items to represent their respective hero class; not the item.

For items, Teutonic Robe and Torch would obviously be S+ tier.

I see that set as a different class. The blacklisted class.

Spoiler

(22-12-2019, 06:24 PM)Forward Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 05:53 PM)Woody Wrote:

(22-12-2019, 04:47 PM)Forward Wrote: We all can agree that people goal in this game is maximizing loot and minimizing time and effort. That would be objective definition for best strategy therefore best classes suitable for that strategy would be objectively best overall.

And when you're including high or low class gear price (as pros or cons) its already defining good/bad classes. Cheap class gear rather tells you about class being inefficient at battlefield, and vise versa.

Really? Ok, I'll go there.

Playing as Sentry so a "not suitable class" with 300+ ping I had just about the same amount of kills as you playing as Mp with the daggers you like so much. Objectively everyone below me in kills was "bad" (in this a run). This could include everyone on that run as if I did have good ping I would have had almost doubled my kills going from how slow ping makes bows etc... 

Out of the 2 options here what it is?

Is my skill that much greater than yours I can play a "not suitable class" with 300+ ping and get just about as much kills as you. 
or
Classes don't affect gameplay as much as you make out.

What I think matters the most in terms of "maximizing loot and minimizing time" is 

In order

1. Your attitude (not being afk etc...) 
   
2. The map
   
3. Your game sense (understanding when and when not to peek for example) 
   
4. The gear your have
   
5. The class you are
   

Playing for "maximizing loot and minimizing time" is subjective... You have no evidence everyone does this to this extreme. People like myself are will to play classes that have tools or have experiences other you claim to be the only ones we need simply don't offer. My attitude + game sense and I guess gear to some point impacted my kill count or usefulness so much more than the class it self to the point I could play any tr4 and probably got more kills than 1/4 maybe even 1/2 of that team we just had. 

I and others would rather play a class we find enjoyable so we can be the most effective in terms of attitude we bring to the run. Not everyone feels my way or your way it's subjective... I like the idea of Sentry but do I think its the most suitable class for what I just did? No. I don't care about being that 100% of "maximizing loot" what matters to me is I enjoyed using my Pride and using my H-bow more than if I just played my Warden with Tempest. 
 

I was inventing and writing an answer here while playing that run, which was negatively affecting my performance I have to admit. Though on some maps there might be just not enough peeking spots for ranged waves and such, so flat kills count is not that usable to measure neither player neither class performance.

Playing Sentry instead of Warden makes no sense, we're losing team DPS when you do that.

If you don't agree with 'max loot/min time' or other DPS/kill-based criteria, gear price might be class performance metric, yes.