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+--- Thread: Less shield walls, less enemy? (/showthread.php?tid=855)
Re: Less shield walls, less enemy? - JOPO - 29-01-2012
Player Made shieldwall doesnt work - Because all the shields in this mod are weak and made of paper
Only way to survive is a supermassofdepsheilds
Re: Less shield walls, less enemy? - IndiaQuinn - 29-01-2012
Interesting topic.
The building of huge deployable shield walls in Swadian Town is probably the best teamwork I have seen in the game. Players and teams, will always try to find ways to get the best defenses. That is part of the challenge (as long as it is not glitching or exploiting). Forcing into only a certain amount of options is limiting team creativity. I have seen teams trying to make that wall but fail utterly due to lack of teamwork.... And in most cases the shield wall eventually collapses.
Now on the other hand I truly understand this is also a way to beat the Nords to easily due to the predictability of the ai. But as said by some this is only the result of the true difficulty on the other maps.
In many cases only a few high level players are really excellent and outclass the rest. I am a lvl 41 but I am far from the greatness of some badass talented players. My survivabilty on all other maps is maybe 2 rounds. I have played with players that rock on normal maps, but look like newbies on hard, even with teamwork. Actually on hard there is no other option than teamwork if you want a few kills and survive one round or more. That in on itself is good, so the latest mod changes confirm the intention of the devs. Looking forward to more tweaking.
Also it is understandable that people grind on Town as there is hardly any chance of getting loot on other maps. It is more than logical/expectable that people choose for maps where they have higher survivability or higher chances for xp and loot.
I am looking forward to the possible barricading skills for the engineer class. Make cading only possible for this class, so you need them in the team. Maybe make cading expensive, but with pretty strong cades. Or make cading/deployable shield walls not possible on certain choke points. Cading takes a lot of effort. And I remain, people who cade are almost always teamplayers. Just like the healers. Shielders in a wall are often the ones that sacrifice themselves and do not get xp or loot.
Re: Less shield walls, less enemy? - ster - 29-01-2012
Just make all shield walls disappear after end of round, then there will be no more respawn abuse to build huge walls
Re: Less shield walls, less enemy? - FinKone - 29-01-2012
If everyone is on the same page, with a full server they'd be able to spawn in that round with 48 shields, make it easy to wave 7/8ish. Not to mention the respawn waves from bosses everyone but 2 will kill themselves and respawn with another batch of shields to add to the 48.
Not a option, would not work - players that have established themselves as dominate team player groups would thrive and be the only ones to get legendary loot - while regular 16 hard mode servers of players "Trying" to work together would just crumble under the greed of getting items once the walls up.
No dice.
Re: Less shield walls, less enemy? - IndiaQuinn - 29-01-2012
(29-01-2012, 08:00 PM)FinKone link Wrote: If everyone is on the same page, with a full server they'd be able to spawn in that round with 48 shields, make it easy to wave 7/8ish. Not to mention the respawn waves from bosses everyone but 2 will kill themselves and respawn with another batch of shields to add to the 48.
Not a option, would not work - players that have established themselves as dominate team player groups would thrive and be the only ones to get legendary loot - while regular 16 hard mode servers of players "Trying" to work together would just crumble under the greed of getting items once the walls up.
No dice.
This is so true.
Re: Less shield walls, less enemy? - ster - 29-01-2012
Never seen all players take 3 shields, each new shield which you bring penalize you hardly by limiting your capabilities, for example you need 2 slots to play like shielder at least, without shielders even hugest wall will fall pretty fast, also archers cant take more then 2 shields, even then they are penalized by not having melee weapon, even then some people just lazy to switch unused slots to dep shields. It makes your calculations and arguments based on them wrong.
Lets assume full team manage to get 48 shields, doubt they can make to 7-8 wave without excellent teamwork. Average team will probably get wall breached near 4 wave, this is based on personal gaming experience. Also if it is half of team, they could take mostly 20 shields, which will help them with one wave mostly, before it will be breached.
Because deployed shields are like paper for bots now, they cant hold nords for long, that's why team uses shielders, and shield wall is just coverage or used in emergency situations.
Even more only once players get to 9 wave, using that method.
Team players will always have advantage before single players, removing shield walls will not change it. Also devs encourage teamplay and establishing groups
Also lets not forget about players on normal mode, earlier dep shield wall was only solution on inf map to get to waves higher then berserkers. So normal mode in same situation as hard mode
In my opinion dep shield wall gave nice randomness and depth in mod, which resulted in higher replayability
I think making all dep shield walls disappear after end of round will solve the problem and still will allow single individuals build small defensive walls for pleasure
Re: Less shield walls, less enemy? - FinKone - 29-01-2012
(29-01-2012, 08:58 PM)ster link Wrote: Never seen all players take 3 shields, each new shield which you bring penalize you hardly by limiting your capabilities, for example you need 2 slots to play like shielder at least, without shielders even hugest wall will fall pretty fast, also archers cant take more then 2 shields, even then they are penalized by not having melee weapon, even then some people just lazy to switch unused slots to dep shields. It makes your calculations and arguments based on them wrong.
Lets assume full team manage to get 48 shields, doubt they can make to 7-8 wave without excellent teamwork. Average team will probably get wall breached near 4 wave, this is based on personal gaming experience. Also if it is half of team, they could take mostly 20 shields, which will help them with one wave mostly, before it will be breached.
Because deployed shields are like paper for bots now, they cant hold nords for long, that's why team uses shielders, and shield wall is just coverage or used in emergency situations.
Even more only once players get to 9 wave, using that method.
Team players will always have advantage before single players, removing shield walls will not change it. Also devs encourage teamplay and establishing groups
Also lets not forget about players on normal mode, earlier dep shield wall was only solution on inf map to get to waves higher then berserkers. So normal mode in same situation as hard mode
In my opinion dep shield wall gave nice randomness and depth in mod, which resulted in higher replayability
I think making all dep shield walls disappear after end of round will solve the problem and still will allow single individuals build small defensive walls for pleasure
I stoped reading your lengthy reply... I'm not wrong. The first wave is easy with good players. Guess what? They drop shields. I've seen people function with ONE shielder and NO archers, that made it to wave 13. So whatever server you play on thats great that they are not as organized as what I've witnessed. That would not be a fix. I am a shielder and pole arm user so I'll keep this short
because its not the lenght of the reply but the facts that make a post relative, so even if you had 10 good warrior with 29 shields, that most die on wave 3 with one medic theyde get another set of shields. The function of the shields for this style of play is to get the AI to repath and funnel, most the time with a good group they loose very little shields by the 5th wave. But whatever man what do I know. I've got pics that show this theory working correctly, lmao so.... NO DICE!!! NOT A FIX!
Use the battlefield to get what you need guys with that said, my alt archer enters map with 90 something arrows and I steal from the nords first chance I get to get a weapon. Use the field!
Devs did good.