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+--- Thread: Website changes and other news. (/showthread.php?tid=6235)
Re: Website changes and other news. - Galen_Thalheimer - 21-01-2013
(21-01-2013, 05:35 PM)Barristan link Wrote:Our aim with these changes is to will allow new houses to make money on relatively basic materials and will force mid-high level players to use these materials.
See, I think this is an ABSOLUTE HORRIBLE idea. The problem is that house crafting is now tied to the leader, which in no way guarantees them actually using that money/mats for house needs and not their own. The only way this won't cause problems (in probably every house -- I agree with Sphinx) is for there to be a "house" character that has it's own crafting and inventory.
What happens when the leader of a house changed due to inactivity? Does the house have to start house crafting over since it's tied to the leader? It shouldn't (but I'm guessing this will make work for devs to clean up the messes). Plus, if it was a separate entity, at least the devs can see if the house leader is just leaching everything via trades rather than being part of a commingled inventory (which I assume it is not being a house leader and being able to see house crafting in the slightest).
Re: Website changes and other news. - Yabu - 21-01-2013
(21-01-2013, 07:59 PM)Galen_Thalheimer link Wrote:[quote author=Barristan link=topic=8506.msg74920#msg74920 date=1358789758]
Our aim with these changes is to will allow new houses to make money on relatively basic materials and will force mid-high level players to use these materials.
See, I think this is an ABSOLUTE HORRIBLE idea. The problem is that house crafting is now tied to the leader, which in no way guarantees them actually using that money/mats for house needs and not their own. The only way this won't cause problems (in probably every house -- I agree with Sphinx) is for there to be a "house" character that has it's own crafting and inventory.
What happens when the leader of a house changed due to inactivity? Does the house have to start house crafting over since it's tied to the leader? It shouldn't (but I'm guessing this will make work for devs to clean up the messes). Plus, if it was a separate entity, at least the devs can see if the house leader is just leaching everything via trades rather than being part of a commingled inventory (which I assume it is not being a house leader and being able to see house crafting in the slightest).
[/quote]
I agree that the house itself needs an inventory and more uses for the House Bank.
Re: Website changes and other news. - Galen_Thalheimer - 21-01-2013
(21-01-2013, 08:05 PM)Yabu link Wrote:I agree that the house itself needs an inventory and more uses for the House Bank.
Yes, sales of house crafting goods should go to the house bank, not the leader.
Re: Website changes and other news. - Hypernoma - 21-01-2013
Maybe if you guys held onto your horses a house inventory might appear.
Re: Website changes and other news. - YuriTheRed - 21-01-2013
(21-01-2013, 08:11 PM)Hypernoma link Wrote:Maybe if you guys held onto your horses a house inventory might appear.
Im still holding onto my horses, can UK get a house inventroy =D
Re: Website changes and other news. - Legend - 21-01-2013
(21-01-2013, 07:59 PM)Galen_Thalheimer link Wrote:[quote author=Barristan link=topic=8506.msg74920#msg74920 date=1358789758]
Our aim with these changes is to will allow new houses to make money on relatively basic materials and will force mid-high level players to use these materials.
See, I think this is an ABSOLUTE HORRIBLE idea. The problem is that house crafting is now tied to the leader, which in no way guarantees them actually using that money/mats for house needs and not their own. The only way this won't cause problems (in probably every house -- I agree with Sphinx) is for there to be a "house" character that has it's own crafting and inventory.
What happens when the leader of a house changed due to inactivity? Does the house have to start house crafting over since it's tied to the leader? It shouldn't (but I'm guessing this will make work for devs to clean up the messes). Plus, if it was a separate entity, at least the devs can see if the house leader is just leaching everything via trades rather than being part of a commingled inventory (which I assume it is not being a house leader and being able to see house crafting in the slightest).
[/quote]
Well, if you cannot trust your house leader to get this into good use for the house (so the members ), you maybe should think about a house-change....
Re: Website changes and other news. - Hypernoma - 21-01-2013
Also that ^^
Re: Website changes and other news. - ughgh - 21-01-2013
I'm holding on to my house, can I get a horse inventory?
Re: Website changes and other news. - Barristan - 21-01-2013
(21-01-2013, 07:59 PM)Galen_Thalheimer link Wrote:[quote author=Barristan link=topic=8506.msg74920#msg74920 date=1358789758]
Our aim with these changes is to will allow new houses to make money on relatively basic materials and will force mid-high level players to use these materials.
See, I think this is an ABSOLUTE HORRIBLE idea. The problem is that house crafting is now tied to the leader, which in no way guarantees them actually using that money/mats for house needs and not their own. The only way this won't cause problems (in probably every house -- I agree with Sphinx) is for there to be a "house" character that has it's own crafting and inventory.
What happens when the leader of a house changed due to inactivity? Does the house have to start house crafting over since it's tied to the leader? It shouldn't (but I'm guessing this will make work for devs to clean up the messes). Plus, if it was a separate entity, at least the devs can see if the house leader is just leaching everything via trades rather than being part of a commingled inventory (which I assume it is not being a house leader and being able to see house crafting in the slightest).
[/quote]
Let me try and address some of what you are saying here. There is a matter of leadership and a matter of accountability. It is very important to make sure that you have a trustworthy leader. It is true that we have enhanced this role. However, if we broadened it out so that captains or sergeants could also craft, then the issue only gets worse, rather than better. Can you imagine how bad the politics within houses could get if three or more people who have communications issues start getting into problems over accountability. As a result, we made the choice to have leaders do the house crafting.
We can and will transfer the profession to the new leader. Changing leader takes a database change anyway, so the idea that we would have major issues transferring the profession is not particularly persuasive to me.
When it comes to a leader being accountable. That is a matter for the house. The trading logs are something we can see although once again, you need to have a trustworthy leader to make the system work. If you do not, then there is a problem with the house and not necessarily one with the rest of us. Put simply, there is no way to guarantee that the leader will be 100% accountable, there is also no way that a house can be held 100% accountable or a captain can be held 100% accountable. But by limiting it to the leader, we know where the buck stops and so do the other house members.
It seems, to me at least, that you think everyone should be able to house craft. Considering how much of your position is predicated on accountability, the idea of everyone being able to craft on a separate character would seem to only make the matter worse. If however, you are desperate, you can have a character just for house crafting that people can check on. There is absolutely nothing, aside from the faction points, to stop you for having a neutral leader character as the house crafter right now. So if that is what you really desperately want and you want to take on the accountability problems that come from this, then by all means do so right now.
Re: Website changes and other news. - Galen_Thalheimer - 22-01-2013
(21-01-2013, 09:03 PM)Barristan link Wrote:Let me try and address some of what you are saying here. There is a matter of leadership and a matter of accountability. It is very important to make sure that you have a trustworthy leader. It is true that we have enhanced this role. However, if we broadened it out so that captains or sergeants could also craft, then the issue only gets worse, rather than better. Can you imagine how bad the politics within houses could get if three or more people who have communications issues start getting into problems over accountability. As a result, we made the choice to have leaders do the house crafting.
We can and will transfer the profession to the new leader. Changing leader takes a database change anyway, so the idea that we would have major issues transferring the profession is not particularly persuasive to me.
When it comes to a leader being accountable. That is a matter for the house. The trading logs are something we can see although once again, you need to have a trustworthy leader to make the system work. If you do not, then there is a problem with the house and not necessarily one with the rest of us. Put simply, there is no way to guarantee that the leader will be 100% accountable, there is also no way that a house can be held 100% accountable or a captain can be held 100% accountable. But by limiting it to the leader, we know where the buck stops and so do the other house members.
It seems, to me at least, that you think everyone should be able to house craft. Considering how much of your position is predicated on accountability, the idea of everyone being able to craft on a separate character would seem to only make the matter worse. If however, you are desperate, you can have a character just for house crafting that people can check on. There is absolutely nothing, aside from the faction points, to stop you for having a neutral leader character as the house crafter right now. So if that is what you really desperately want and you want to take on the accountability problems that come from this, then by all means do so right now.
Well, I think you misunderstood me. I agree, it's a house leader accountability issue -- and only one person should be able to house craft. But until this point, house leader really only was in charge, or well, nothing other house events I suppose (as captains could invite people to the house). Suddenly, leaders have A LOT more responsibility, compounded with the fact that there really isn't any real visibility to non-leaders (rank and file can't even see the recipes or whatever without using the forum). I agree that there should only be one person who controls the pot, but it would be nice if everyone in the house could at least see progress on house crafting and/or the recipes.
Re: transferring the leadership role, just seems like it would more dev work, but if you have to hand alter leaders anyway, just adding a few more steps I guess.
My biggest complain is the merged money/inventory situation, which you (devs) seem to be rolling out a house inventory. Perhaps a solution for accountability would be to have some ability to list out things that have been crafted of the big items -- maybe just a counter per item.