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+---- Thread: Can someone make a Pikeman guide? (/showthread.php?tid=3061)
Can someone make a Pikeman guide? - Avranish - 10-07-2012
I've been searching around for tips on how to play a pikeman efficiently in Warband, and in this modification, but have found little to nothing.
There's plenty of guides on how to play around with two handed swords, one handed swords and shields, and even archery. Yet I've found no trace of a pikeman related guide.
It bothers me even more to see amazingly good pikemen in Warband multiplayer, and in Nord Invasion, using all sorts of tricks and tactics that I have no idea how to do.
I can sort of grasp the idea that you can trick the artificial intelligence into thinking you're about to attack, so they raise their shield or weapon to block, but then you block to cancel your attack, causing their weapon to go down, giving you an opening for an attack.
But beyond that I just end up getting swarmed by several enemies at once, reducing that tactic to dust. Mainly because it takes several pokes from my awl pike to kill one nord on hard mode. It also disappoints me that the most damaging pike on the marketplace is so short. I'd love to use something the length of the normal pike, 245 length or more, and actually have enough damage to back up the length. Otherwise it's like hitting enemies with a toothpick.
I know I could use the more slashing oriented weapons, such as the great long bardiche, but that's not what I wanted out of this class. I wanted this class to be centered around using long ranged spears and or halberds with great piercing damage.
If I end up having to use the great long bardiche to even come close to being helpful, until I can purchase one of the expensive pikeman weapons, then I'm just a speedier, and weaker version of the Commando.
So, my main request is if someone could tell me some general pikeman tips, or show me a guide so that I can be a better pikeman. Thank you.
Re: Can someone make a Pikeman guide? - WhindGhost8 - 10-07-2012
Having played pikeman for a fair while I can give you a few tips off the top of my head, though i'm sure there are more experienced players out there with better ideas
First off, you CAN actually 1 hit kill alot of enemies on hard mode with the awlpike... The trick is to get distance between yourself an the opponent and then maximize your speed bonus by moving forwards and stabbing before they have the chance to stop/move back, aiming for the head also gives you a nice damage bonus aswell
Unfortunately hard mode isn't too kind on awlpikes as currently you cannot stab through a shieldwall effectively leaving you either slashing with a bardiche or throwing jarids. Even if you can stab through a shieldwall you need momentum to really deal damage which will usually lead to you getting in the way of ranged attackers/etc. Basically this means that if you want to use a non slashing polearm you should probably stick to normal.
One of the biggest problems I see pikemen in hard mode having is not carrying a shield. You may think it reduces the damage you deal with your awlpike or takes up slots better used for throwing weapons but I can tell you now it is one of your most valuable assets. Don't forget that you can hold your shield up while throwing weapons which is a real lifesaver considering how little armour you get. Alongside being able to use it with throwing weapons you can use a shield to approach or retreat from a group of ranged attackers such as the ever present rangers. Once you get close enough to a ranger, swap out your shield at the same time that they change weapon and you can use him as a meat shield to stop the others shooting you.
I would suggest that you don't actually equip one of the shields you have access to and instead fill your support slot with a board shield (Basically the best of anti arrow cover) and use it only for blocking projectiles.
Since spears don't really suit hard mode currently I'll give a few tips on general fighting with a polearm instead:
Your awlpike actually has a decent amount of range to it, though you can always use the long awlpike which is essentially just as good minus a bit of speed.
When thinking about range on a spear any range beyond the opponent's weapon reach is near negligable as unless you're in an open field with no obstacles around you, a long weapon reach will often have you hitting nearbye scenery or even allies behind you rather than the nord you're aiming for. Not only this but with a stab attack you gain a range bonus which usually allows you to beat enemies to the hit.
One of the other things I've noticed with the pikeman is that if you keep up with the flow of battle you can easily carve through a horde of enemies much faster than any other class, you just need to get the timing down for when you step forwards or backwards and when the opportune moments to strike are.
A good thing to do is to learn what you can and what you can't take out in a single hit. If you know that you're going to kill an enemy you can potentially block/avoid the attack from the next nord in line. Not only this but you can also use it to easily create escape routes from hordes by charging an enemy blocking your path and killing him without stopping.
In answer to some of your queries I think one of the main reasons that there isn't a guide to pikemen already is that everyone I've come across has a different way of playing the pikeman, probably due to the fact that it's such a versatile class. Not to mention that we pikemen are (were, i've seen alot of red-shirts with spears lately) a rare bunch.
Quote:I can sort of grasp the idea that you can trick the artificial intelligence into thinking you're about to attack, so they raise their shield or weapon to block, but then you block to cancel your attack, causing their weapon to go down, giving you an opening for an attack.What you are talking about here is feinting, a commonly used tactic to confuse an enemy by pretending to attack in one direction but actually attacking in another. There are plenty of guides around on how to do this and the much less common chambering if you want to look up how to do these.
I could probably give a more indepth guide but unfortunately I've been stuck in shieldwalls for a long while with little spear experience in the past few weeks :-*
Re: Can someone make a Pikeman guide? - Hypernoma - 10-07-2012
All about the spin stab
Re: Can someone make a Pikeman guide? - Avranish - 10-07-2012
See that's the thing. I understand feinting, chamber blocking, and the whole idea of gaining momentum for an attack. It's just that chamber blocking is almost out of the question, considering most pikes don't have sideways attacks, and that pikes don't do that much damage when using a sideways attack.
That's why it seems kind of silly to even bother using a pike, when you could opt out for a weapon that has a sideways attacking capability, like a halberd, or a bardiche.
The few pikes that are available in the marketplace that are good, are either really short, or have a great length, but crappy piercing damage.
All of the times my thrusts whiff, or do hit, a commando could have killed several enemies in a row of the same type, because they don't need to use thrusting attacks. Thrusts just seem redundant because of the huge chance of it bouncing off an enemy. I know you could say "Oh that's why you've got to keep getting better at gauging distances, and knowing when to attack.", but that doesn't change the fact that thrusts bounce the most often out of any attack, and leave you the most vulnerable.
The times a thrust does hit, a slashing weapon could have out damaged the spear, and killed the enemy much faster.
That's why I don't see any reason to use the current marketplace spears. Huge chance of whiffing, no sideways attacks, and not enough damage compared to the other weapons.
If the spears in the marketplace had a higher piercing damage to compensate, then I would see a huge difference in weapon choice. Otherwise, it's best to stick with the slashing type weapons for shieldwalls.
And if I end up having to use things like the great long bardiche, I might as well just play commando and use a two handed sword for more power, and better armor.
Re: Can someone make a Pikeman guide? - WhindGhost8 - 10-07-2012
If you have a look at how damage is calculated it's true that slashing weapons kill unarmoured enemies ALOT faster. When you get to hard mode however the piercing attack actually gets reduced significantly less by armour. I can actually kill zweihanders in one shot, whereas my commando friend usually takes a good 5-10 seconds per zwei. You also have to keep in mind that the pikeman is NOT meant to be on par in melee with the commando. Using the zweihander example, I can slaughter a wave of zwei's faster than and commando could ever dream of by simply headshotting the wave with jarids.
Pikeman was never really meant to be an easy class to play, I used to have my stab attacks bounce all the time until I learned to judge the proper length of my weapon, after that it only ever happens when I mess up and attack in the wrong direction/move the wrong way.
A thrust attack is designed to be a situational attack, you merely have to make the situation for it. If you use the thrust in the right way it has the most damage potential out of any melee attack which is a good enough reason to me for the slightly higher chance to mess up.
The entire pikeman class is practically about being a glass cannon, you have very high damage potential but messing up can quickly put an end to that.
The only reason you would ever need higher pierce damage on one of those spears is if you wanted to start one shotting bosses as I can already 2-3 shot heimdallr (first boss on hard mode) and two shot his friends. If you're coming across a certain type of enemy that you find your attacks bounce off, try throwing weapons instead. Don't forget that you can also use your spear to overhead an enemy and then jab them while they're distracted.
Re: Can someone make a Pikeman guide? - Barristan - 11-07-2012
Don't swing till you hear the ting.