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+---- Thread: Support for Cav (/showthread.php?tid=54613)
Support for Cav - LordChaos - 24-06-2016
Hello everyone,
I) What is it about?
I wanted to propose some support items for cavalry as a lot wish for it to improve. I was mainly thinking of two types of items which would provide :
1) Speed buff through a horn. (I've thought of it as I love to play one of the expansions: Viking conquest).
There would be 3 tiers for the horn, horn is usable or not, to be decided*, but its buff is for all friendlies in a certain area. (Like IRL when you would hear the noise). BUT THIS IS CAV EXCLUSIVE.
Tier 1: Give a speedbuff of +1% usable by tier 1 cav (range of medic box)
Craftable by alchemist.
Tier 2: Give a speedbuff of +2% usable by tier 2 cav (Range of field medic)
Craftable by alchemist.
Tier 3: Give a speedbuff of +5% usable by tier 2 cav within the range of the entire map (MSK like).
Craftable by House Support level 10 .
2) Extra damage buff (I know some will contest this but hear it out - well read it out.), Given by a banner carried on the back of the person, like the current one existing. BUT THIS IS CAV EXCLUSIVE.
Tier 1: Give an attack damage buff of +1% usable by tier 1 cav (range of medic box)
Craftable by blacksmith.
Tier 2: Give an attack damage buff of +2% usable by tier 1 cav (Range of field medic)
Craftable by alchemist.
Tier 3: Give an attack damage buff of +5% usable by tier 2 cav within the range of the entire map (MSK like).
Craftable by House Attacker level 10 .
NOTICE : Please note that every buff item will be :
1) Stackable IF it has one charge for a duration (t1 30seconds,t2 1minute,t3 2 minutes) but refillable. (which I think isn't that good, imagine wave 20, where people spawned 4-5 tier 3, having a couple of them stacked, it might get too easy then if 16 players are on it). But the goodthing is that it will push people to play cav more often. (This would be for the attack damage buff).
OR
2) Non-stackable where the use is permanent, let me explain: 1 tier 1 buff is always active within its range but not stacked with the other tiers 1, same for a tier 2 and the others tier 2 and the tiers 3 and others tiers 3.
Tier 1 and 2 and 3 are stackable, which would be a maximum of +8% damage or speed within range of the person. But they are not within their own range of level. So no duplicated buffs, otherwise we would be with permanents buffs of +80% damage (16*5%..). And I think this is the best option for the buffs, so there won't be any abuse.
II) The models :
A) Meshes
The model for the speed buff can just be a horn, you could ask any other module's authorization to use one, or just model one, which I don't think would take that much of time to be honest. Just a low poly horn shaped thing, with a ivory or wooden texture, I don't mind personnally retexturing it.
The model of the banner could be the same as the current one used as a reward for the tournament. And different tiers would have different textures. EG: (Wood, Copper, Steel as in damascus steel)
B) Animation:
Well, for the animation part, for the horn I don't think anyone would mind if there isn't any, it could be an attack animation with a sound notification + chat notification like the barrel & tome.
For the banner, it's carried on the back, and locked this way. Cannot be dropped or transfered INGAME.
C) Effect animation:
For the horn it could be the medical signs in bluesh shades. The tiers will be divided within shades Tier1 Tier2 Tier3.
For the banner it can be the medical signs in reddish shades. The tiers will be divided within shades Tier1 Tier2 Tier3.
III) Crafting.
The crafting materials used for the horns should fix some markets issues as they would be:
A) Attack Damage Buff:
Tier1:
Requires Blacksmith level 10:
Mixed glue x 3
Sturdy wood x 20
Basic wood x 40
Scrap metal x 20
Steel x 4
Dye x 10
Heavy Cloth x 30
Strap x 4
Creates : Small Swadian Banner x1
Yields 200 xp
Tier 2:
Requires Alchemist level 14:
Mixed glue x 10
Sturdy wood x 50
Basic wood x 200
Hardened metal x 20
Copper bar x 10
Brass Bar x 2
Dye x 20
Heavy Cloth x 60
Strap x 20
Wooden Slat x 2
Creates : Swadian Standard x1
Yields 400 xp
Tier 3:
Requires House Support Crafting level 10:
Mixed glue x 40
Sturdy wood x 200
Basic wood x 500
Wooden Slat x 10
Hardened metal x 50
Large Gold bar x 10
Gold Bar x 10
Dye x 100
Heavy Cloth x 200
Strap x 40
Damascus Steel x 5
Perfected metal x 5
Plate Mail x 2
Creates : Swadian Battle Standard x1
Yields 400 xp
B) Speedbuff :
Tier 1:
Requires Alchemy level 10:
Mixed glue x 3
Sturdy wood x 20
Basic wood x 40
Scrap metal x 50
Steel x 4
Dye x 10
Strap x 4
Creates : Rusty Swadian Horn x1
Yields 200 xp
Tier 2:
Requires Alchemy level 14:
Mixed glue x 10
Sturdy wood x 50
Basic wood x 100
Hardened metal x 20
Copper bar x 10
Brass Bar x 2
Dye x 20
Heavy Cloth x 60
Strap x 20
Processed Wood x 40
Creates : Swadian Horn x1
Yields 300 xp
Tier 3:
Requires House Support Crafting level 10:
Mixed glue x 40
Sturdy wood x 200
Basic wood x 200
Processed wood x200
Hardened metal x 50
Large Gold bar x 10
Gold Bar x 10
Dye x 100
Heavy Cloth x 200
Strap x 40
Damascus Steel x 5
Perfected metal x 5
Chains x 100
Chain Link x 50
Creates : Swadian Battle Horn x1
Yields 400 xp
C) Eventual legendaries :
Well if the devs are interrested in this, maybe they can work on a some legendaries giving 8% or 10%, dropping only in cav.
So this is my idea, with actual numbers, actual crafting blueprints which I think would please a lot. If it doesn't or does please you, I would be glad to hear some constructed feedback as it took me a while to work on this. I am sorry if I did any mistakes, but I would be glad to read it.
Thank you all for reading it, and thanks to our developpers who are doing a huge work on the mod and everyone that contributed.
RE: Support for Cav - DR. - 24-06-2016
Just a quick read could just make cafted buff banner that Max's at 1-4 people so you can't be to op. (saying this so people can bring it in other severs)
For speed get good/lvl up. Look at one video about race lines it will change how you look at any kiteing/cav. You can have tr3 cav and if you have skill you can solo to 16+
RE: Support for Cav - LordChaos - 24-06-2016
(24-06-2016, 01:17 AM)Woody Wrote: Just a quick read could just make cafted buff banner that Max's at 1-4 people so you can't be to op. (saying this so people can bring it in other severs)
For speed get good/lvl up. Look at one video about race lines it will change how you look at any kiteing/cav. You can have tr3 cav and if you have skill you can solo to 16+
This is a good advice for the boss at the wave 20, but it doesn't change the fact that I am talking about TEAM support, not solo support or how to play. It is supposed to improve the experience between players, and as it won't be stackable beside different tiers. People will have to prepare themselves to have an advantage of the support.
It's like a team with a whole bunch of support that can't use it, it's not about how you move, but how you work together. Plus the schematics aren't applyable in cav beside wave 20 as I said it before because you're not in a race or circuit, it's an open map. So beside how to outrange the boss in that post you made, I don't see what you mean.
By improving the speed as I was stating in the post, you improve your damage, aswell as your charge damage. In Cav we have to circle around enemies, it's just a fact.
RE: Support for Cav - ZuS - 24-06-2016
Well, I would like to suggest something.
1. About the stuff working - Have anyone played Napoleonic Wars? There are buffs synchronized to things or playable classes, and they work pernamently, but only for people who are nearby, (They do not accumulate of course) and these people can see red or blue circles on the top left corner of the screen containing an image of the buff, and what is more, the buff do not work for a person who gives the buff, and if the person who carry a banner is gone, the buff disappears.
It do not have to work exaclty like that, it is only an example, but i think it would prevent imposition of the buffs and will force players to teamwork and do not let the banner/horn carrier die.
2. About the crafting materials - In my opinion the materials for banner and horn shouldn't be the same. Banner should be consist of for example anticeptic cloths because there are thousands of it on AH (or were due to AH 7 day's update), and maybe silk since the horn should use maybe basic leather or something like that (As LordChaos said, the crafting materials should fix some issues on the AH)
Sorry for any misstakes or unclear sentences.
RE: Support for Cav - DR. - 24-06-2016
If a buff to cav you want i would ask for
1. Lower xp need for tr4/tr5 and add hero(500k maybe ?) for speed/armor/horse maneuver
2. Make it easier to shrine as it to hard for something we need to pay cash for.
3. Put more amo,heal,etc in maps together!! As 4 things to fill up in 30s add you need to go get to them it just a pain on some maps. if some how could make 1 thing to go to like a shrine that would be grate (lower the speed of refill if needed)
4. Pikeman some how can have more amo.
5. Make mats drop more/Xp and put like hard need to be lvl 32 or even lvl 52 with more xp that would be nice.
6. Nerf snipers by lowering there amo so they go into 1/2h a bit faster ??
Just one or more of these would make cav better and some don't even need a new model and new crafting etc.
RE: Support for Cav - LordChaos - 22-07-2016
(24-06-2016, 10:18 AM)Woody Wrote: If a buff to cav you want i would ask for
1. Lower xp need for tr4/tr5 and add hero(500k maybe ?) for speed/armor/horse maneuver
2. Make it easier to shrine as it to hard for something we need to pay cash for.
3. Put more amo,heal,etc in maps together!! As 4 things to fill up in 30s add you need to go get to them it just a pain on some maps. if some how could make 1 thing to go to like a shrine that would be grate (lower the speed of refill if needed)
4. Pikeman some how can have more amo.
5. Make mats drop more/Xp and put like hard need to be lvl 32 or even lvl 52 with more xp that would be nice.
6. Nerf snipers by lowering there amo so they go into 1/2h a bit faster ??
Just one or more of these would make cav better and some don't even need a new model and new crafting etc.
1) I understand that pain, and for the hero suggestion, why not combining the two ideas? Hero could unlock these supports items.
2) For the shrine, it's a pain for everyone, why not setting shrines that take normal loading time, but make it free then (cav only, meanwhile the regular ones will be faster and by cash)? I personnally aggree with the fact that sometimes it's a pain in the *ss to reach it, if it doesn't get you killed.
3)Check my answer for #2
4) Pikemen are unbalanced for cavs, the only good item that can be used for couching and thrusting is the hunter's spear, a higher level upgrade should be avaible as the aim is almost impossible.
5) Cav is basically unfinished, but adding these features might improve somehow the experience throughout the runs
6) Why not, but you know that 16+ is basically the equivalent of Rag for the troops, and it's kind of "normal".
But the whole thread here is to try to complete cav, I aggree with you on many points, but if we want to push forward cav, we need to add some things that will make people curious about it.
Yes we need more mat drops in cav, especially that they need to be equivalent to their difficulty. (1-8 Normal 9-15 hard, 16-20 Rag).
RE: Support for Cav - DR. - 22-07-2016
Tempest,Twigs,Plate over leather Ek and more have drop on cav. people will play it even if it got harder i would think lol
With the pikeman idea of more amo i'm finding atm pikeman can be good if you have bigamo on you and have the skill to use it on the higher waves.
Also to add if you could make some more pikes usable Dh Mangler and others? If it about how long they just about as long as Elegant Flamberge 166.
For pok ds tp etc make it so you cant put them into there 2nd mode and if 55p a problem there legacy and ags that both have good poke.
Jorm if only lol not even going to ask... i think the price of jorm would double in on update
Side note still have no idea why the longest 2h is crafted one cool idea me and Q and other Ek uses out there would like to see maybe is a legendary rapier? That longer than 166 over 100 speed 55p 60c or something maybe even zwei locked making legacy orange.
RE: Support for Cav - Sargent Q - 22-07-2016
(22-07-2016, 05:37 PM)Woody Wrote: Side note still have no idea why the longest 2h is crafted one cool idea me and Q and other Ek uses out there would like to see maybe is a legendary rapier? That longer than 166 over 100 speed 55p 60c or something maybe even zwei locked making legacy orange.
Don't try to speak for people who you have not talked to about it. I have never asked for anything like that. Nor have i expressed desire to get something like the EK but better.
RE: Support for Cav - DR. - 22-07-2016
(22-07-2016, 05:41 PM)Sargent Q Wrote:(22-07-2016, 05:37 PM)Woody Wrote: Side note still have no idea why the longest 2h is crafted one cool idea me and Q and other Ek uses out there would like to see maybe is a legendary rapier? That longer than 166 over 100 speed 55p 60c or something maybe even zwei locked making legacy orange.
Don't try to speak for people who you have not talked to about it. I have never asked for anything like that. Nor have i expressed desire to get something like the EK but better.
(18-09-2015, 02:24 PM)Sargent Q Wrote: I guess you don't know that i went Sentinel on my Archer. I have the EK for use on my legionnaire.You had a ags at the time add you have 2 of the best 1h in game for speed and i'm sure i remember you saying you prefered the Ek.
My bad i guess i did not think about it before posting.
RE: Support for Cav - Winter - 22-07-2016
(22-07-2016, 05:37 PM)Woody Wrote: Side note still have no idea why the longest 2h is crafted one cool idea me and Q and other Ek uses out there would like to see maybe is a legendary rapier? That longer than 166 over 100 speed 55p 60c or something maybe even zwei locked making legacy orange.
I am struggling to see the connection between being an EK user and supporting your idea of a legendary rapier. Sometimes I wonder if there is a secret EK user club that you are the only member of.
I also have no idea where you got your info on Rapier from... They aren't two handers, a Zweihander would never touch one of these weapons (even though they existed at the same time as the popular Zweihanders/Montantes, they were the civilian weapon, not the battle weapon), and dear lord, the thought of using one on horseback makes my wrist fearful for its life.