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+---- Thread: Throwing Spears (/showthread.php?tid=65892)
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Throwing Spears - Winter - 06-03-2018
Throwing spears recently lost a bit of flight speed, rate of fire, and gained a lot of accuracy in order to cap their outright DPS, but still make them feel competitive. However, some have stated that they preferred raw max DPS over sustainable hitting through increased accuracy. Below is an explanation of what each stat does and a few options to pick from:
Weight - makes you run slower
spd_rtng - increases how often you are able to throw the spear
accuracy - how accurate your reticle is
shoot_speed - how fast the projectile flies through the air
thrust_damage - how much damage you do
max_ammo - how much ammo you have
Current:
CTS: weight(5) | spd_rtng(74) | accuracy (120) | shoot_speed(24) | thrust_damage(53, pierce) | max_ammo(12)
Warmonger: weight(4) | spd_rtng(75) | accuracy (126) | shoot_speed(26) | thrust_damage(56, pierce) | max_ammo(13)
Dragon Breath: weight(3) | spd_rtng(76) | accuracy(132) | shoot_speed(28) | thrust_damage(59, pierce) | max_ammo(14)
Twigs of Yggdrasil: weight(3) | spd_rtng(77) | accuracy(138) | shoot_speed(30) | thrust_damage(62, pierce) | max_ammo(15)
Rupturers: weight(3) | spd_rtng(78) | accuracy(144) |shoot_speed(32) | thrust_damage(65, pierce) | max_ammo(16)
Alternative 1 (-Accuracy, +Rate of Fire):
CTS: weight(5) | spd_rtng(81) | accuracy (106) | shoot_speed(24) | thrust_damage(53, pierce) | max_ammo(12)
Warmonger: weight(4) | spd_rtng(82) | accuracy (110) | shoot_speed(26) | thrust_damage(56, pierce) | max_ammo(13)
Dragon Breath: weight(3) | spd_rtng(83) | accuracy(114) | shoot_speed(28) | thrust_damage(59, pierce) | max_ammo(14)
Twigs of Yggdrasil: weight(3) | spd_rtng(84) | accuracy(118) | shoot_speed(30) | thrust_damage(62, pierce) | max_ammo(15)
Rupturers: weight(3) | spd_rtng(85) | accuracy(122) |shoot_speed(32) | thrust_damage(65, pierce) | max_ammo(16)
Alternative 2 (-Rate of Fire, +Missile Speed):
CTS: weight(5) | spd_rtng(72) | accuracy (120) | shoot_speed(28) | thrust_damage(53, pierce) | max_ammo(12)
Warmonger: weight(4) | spd_rtng(73) | accuracy (126) | shoot_speed(30) | thrust_damage(56, pierce) | max_ammo(13)
Dragon Breath: weight(3) | spd_rtng(74) | accuracy(132) | shoot_speed(32) | thrust_damage(59, pierce) | max_ammo(14)
Twigs of Yggdrasil: weight(3) | spd_rtng(75) | accuracy(138) | shoot_speed(34) | thrust_damage(62, pierce) | max_ammo(15)
Rupturers: weight(3) | spd_rtng(76) | accuracy(144) |shoot_speed(36) | thrust_damage(65, pierce) | max_ammo(16)
Alternative 3 (-Ammo and Accuracy, +Rate of Fire and Missile Speed):
CTS: weight(5) | spd_rtng(81) | accuracy (102) | shoot_speed(28) | thrust_damage(53, pierce) | max_ammo(10)
Warmonger: weight(4) | spd_rtng(82) | accuracy (106) | shoot_speed(30) | thrust_damage(56, pierce) | max_ammo(11)
Dragon Breath: weight(3) | spd_rtng(83) | accuracy(110) | shoot_speed(32) | thrust_damage(59, pierce) | max_ammo(12)
Twigs of Yggdrasil: weight(3) | spd_rtng(84) | accuracy(114) | shoot_speed(34) | thrust_damage(62, pierce) | max_ammo(13)
Rupturers: weight(3) | spd_rtng(85) | accuracy(118) |shoot_speed(36) | thrust_damage(65, pierce) | max_ammo(14)
Note that specialized weapons such as Heavy Pilum will be similar, but edited to have extra points in one area and less in another.
Please vote your opinion or give your own suggestion below. Suggestions that do not contain sufficient explanation will be ignored.
RE: Throwing Spears - Angar - 06-03-2018
Sad to see there's nothing going on to make the Volcanic Daggers better again.
Nevertheless, I am a bit uninformed about stats so I have no clue what has to be increased to make them flying further.
Pikemen must have the possibility to kill enemys from far away.
One example that happened today when I was kiting:
![[Image: 2tfxgnb.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/2tfxgnb.jpg)
The ranger was not moving away from there and my daggers are, thank god, not "good enough" anymore to reach the enemy on that distance. So what I had to do is running all the way to him. And as you can see - that's an Einherjar ranger and he's shooting several arrows at a time on me. It was almost impossible to not fail that solo run. I want that throwing weapons in general have the possibility to reach enemys from far away.
RE: Throwing Spears - Winter - 08-03-2018
So far the poll is in favor of decreasing the accuracy and increasing the rate of fire. I would like to make sure everyone is clear: this will only increase the rate at which you prepare and throw the next spear and will have no effect on how far or quickly the spear travels in the air.
RE: Throwing Spears - [ASSASSINE] - 08-03-2018
I am in favour of keeping the accuracy as it is. Finally it allows you to hit a target further away with a throwing spear. It adds variety to the different throwing weapons. In regards the volcanic daggers: lets take a look at how they used to be before this patch.
volcanic:
Thrust Damage 60p
Accuracy 140
Speed 100
Missile Speed 30
Ammo 25
Weight 3
-Bonus Shields
Classes that can use
- Marauder
- Master Peltast
- Halberdier
- Hoplite
Thrust Damage 66p
Accuracy 140
Speed 82
Missile Speed 36
Ammo 15
Weight 5
-Bonus Shields
Polearm
Swing Damage 33b
Thrust Damage 45p
Length 80
Speed 91
-Bonus Shields
-Penetrate shield
useable by Master Peltast
There are a few things, which I thought were unbalanced comparing volcanic to rupturers:
1. The Ammo per slot compared to weight and damage
2. The ingame aim
3. The speed rating
4. Class Limitation of Rupturers
I'll start by explaining my first reason for this:
The weight was only about half of the rupturers weight, while the ammo is almost double. Furthermore, the damage per shot was only about 10% lower (66p to 60p). This leads to my next point, the ingame aim. Although it says 140 accuracy for both, the ingame aim for volcanic dagger was fully closed. However, for the rupturers, it is "alot" lower accuracy for only 10% damage increase. I am aware that the extra damage lowers the accuracy (l I think that the master peltast only weapon should have a fully closed ingame aim).
Moreover, the throwing speed of the daggers was 18 higher than those of the rupturers, which greatly increases the DPS at Pikeman can deal. My Final point is the class limitation of the rupturers, as it is master peltast only and the daggers are all pike heros.
I believe the throwing weapons are now alot more balanced. If we keep the realism somewhat in mind, it makes sense to throw a spear pretty accurate for 50 meter. However, the same doesnt apply to a dagger, which I can hardly imagine being thrown for 50 meter.
RE: Throwing Spears - Alphaa - 08-03-2018
If we keep the realism somewhat in mind, it doesn´t make sense that you can land each spear perfectly over this distance, while moving. Playerskill left aside. I already said it on Beta testing, throwing has been ruined in my eyes. Perfect aim, hard projectile drop and less damage? No thanks.
RE: Throwing Spears - Lone_Wolf_PL - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 10:54 AM)Alphaa Wrote: If we keep the realism somewhat in mind, it doesn´t make sense that you can land each spear perfectly over this distance, while moving. Playerskill left aside. I already said it on Beta testing, throwing has been ruined in my eyes. Perfect aim, hard projectile drop and less damage? No thanks.
I feel the same. This game shouldn't be all about realism. The projectile drop nerfed pikeman so much that it's no longer as useful as before. Personally, I see very little sense in playing master peltast now but maybe others have different feelings. I'd gladly hear others opinion.
RE: Throwing Spears - Alphaa - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 02:26 PM)Lone_Wolf_PL Wrote:(08-03-2018, 10:54 AM)Alphaa Wrote: If we keep the realism somewhat in mind, it doesn´t make sense that you can land each spear perfectly over this distance, while moving. Playerskill left aside. I already said it on Beta testing, throwing has been ruined in my eyes. Perfect aim, hard projectile drop and less damage? No thanks.
I feel the same. This game shouldn't be all about realism. The projectile drop nerfed pikeman so much that it's no longer as useful as before. Personally, I see very little sense in playing master peltast now but maybe others have different feelings. I'd gladly hear others opinion.
It just feels like especially Master Peltast has been ruined (Twigs usable by Legio), the alternative would be archer where there´s barely a difference in hero classes.
RE: Throwing Spears - Winter - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 02:48 PM)Alphaa Wrote: It just feels like especially Master Peltast has been ruined (Twigs usable by Legio)
I am very curious, what does Twigs being usable on Legionnaire have to do with Master Peltast?
RE: Throwing Spears - Alphaa - 08-03-2018
That was just another example. Legios can equip pretty insane throwables. So what´s the point of a Master Peltast nowadays other than kiting?
RE: Throwing Spears - Winter - 08-03-2018
(08-03-2018, 07:26 PM)Alphaa Wrote: That was just another example. Legios can equip pretty insane throwables. So what´s the point of a Master Peltast nowadays other than kiting?
But every Pikeman Hero could already equip Twigs of Yggdrasil. What effect does this have on Master Peltast?
Given the responses so far, I have cleared the previous poll and added a few alternatives with previews to be voted on. You may pick your two favorite options.