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+---- Thread: The problem of archers (/showthread.php?tid=65905)
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The problem of archers - Ken_Repeaterman - 07-03-2018
Let's talk about uniqueness. This phenomenon is observed among the infantry, among the crossbowmen, the pikemen about not sure and absolutely not sure about archers.
What is the actual problem. Look at the archers-they're all the same. Like cockroaches. They just have a bow, have 8 power strike, have two-handed and one-handed swords, and of course a great speed. They all wear the same armor. They do not distinguish. Even the style of their game is indistinguishable.
To delve into the crux of the problems even more look back on crossbowmen.
They have slow, but also the most deadly class - CM. They have a Strong PC. They have a rapid-fire Repeaterman. These three classes have a completely different purpose behind the barricades. Their style of play is different, though they are all crossbowmen.
Look at the infantry. There's a Royal guard with strong shields. There are Zweihanders with the best and deadly swords. There's the most secure Juggernaut. There is a Legionnaire who owns the best one-handed swords and throwing spears that can retreat for re-grabbing. Their style of play is different, although they are all infantry.
And now look at the archers again. All they do is shoot and run away. Shoot and run away. Shoot and run away. They make dizbalans only one style of play.
Make heavy, slow and deadly Archer by analogy with the English heavy archers.
Make an easy and fast Archer that will rely on your shooting speed rather than damage. He can keep their bows horizontally for example, because he is so important aimed accurate shot. Let him have little bows.
Let him remain a Ranger. As an Archer able to move into melee.
Well, let's keep Sentinel/Sentry as the class is able to use melee weapons. Two-handed and one-handed. (Although I'm not sure about this class).
Archers also need a unique armor. After all, they all just wear a popular costume of some assassin. Why the Archer has no armor, or any traditional armor? Why are they all oets the same?
They are more like a faceless clone. This class differs from all others in its similarity in everything.
And there is clear busts with bear armor.
Write what you think about this.
RE: The problem of archers - Julia. - 07-03-2018
Ranger is able to wear Gilded Bear Armour, but besides that about 90% of all archers (if not more) are Wardens so tbh I doubt adding new armours will change anything.
If I recall correctly there are (in total) 650+ Warden, around 20 Sentry and Sentinel and uhm probably like 30-40 Rangers (out of all Heros). The only person who actually plays Ranger on a regular basis which I recall is Kaas.
RE: The problem of archers - DR. - 07-03-2018
(07-03-2018, 09:19 AM)Julia. Wrote: Ranger on a regular basis which I recall is Kaas.
r.i.p...
RE: The problem of archers - Slayerplayer - 07-03-2018
A little more attention for Archers would indeed be nice. says the Generic Warden, me.
RE: The problem of archers - TerrorBite - 07-03-2018
Currently feels fairly balanced tbh, but being a one dimensional class makes it feel like every archer hero is missing something important, whether that be access to a raging tempest, or high power strike.
I'm surprised to say i actually love this idea though, maybe this will remove the ^ feel.
Hero Class 1: Fast shooter
Hero Class 1: Slow shooter
Hero Class 1: Inferior shooter with superior armour. Superior doesn't mean more weight, thanks
Hero Class 1: Inferior shooter with superior 1h and 2h
I'm surprised to say i actually love this idea though, maybe this will remove the ^ feel.
Hero Class 1: Fast shooter
Hero Class 1: Slow shooter
Hero Class 1: Inferior shooter with superior armour. Superior doesn't mean more weight, thanks
Hero Class 1: Inferior shooter with superior 1h and 2h
and each of royal sniper, h bear, and tracker sets being locked to a different class, with other sets added for more choice if we get the models.
RE: The problem of archers - Bobo - 07-03-2018
I would agree that archer heroes other than Warden miss something. Ranger is ok for higher armor rating maybe, the remaining are no good IMHO. Some changes could be nice. Maybe we need some buff for the 1h / 2h abilities?
RE: The problem of archers - DR. - 07-03-2018
(07-03-2018, 11:56 AM)Bobo Wrote: I would agree that archer heroes other than Warden miss something. Ranger is ok for higher armor rating maybe, the remaining are no good IMHO. Some changes could be nice. Maybe we need some buff for the 1h / 2h abilities?
Senti can get as good 1h's as Leg can and Sentry is the same with 2hs vs Zwei.
Don't think they need anything better other than more people to use them.
RE: The problem of archers - Zocki - 07-03-2018
(07-03-2018, 09:19 AM)Julia. Wrote: Ranger is able to wear Gilded Bear Armour, but besides that about 90% of all archers (if not more) are Wardens so tbh I doubt adding new armours will change anything.
If I recall correctly there are (in total) 650+ Warden, around 20 Sentry and Sentinel and uhm probably like 30-40 Rangers (out of all Heros). The only person who actually plays Ranger on a regular basis which I recall is Kaas.
Why do you know the exact number?
RE: The problem of archers - TerrorBite - 07-03-2018
hmm, before warden locked bows were relevant, the +1 power draw and +40 ranged WPF was enough to make warden the most popular class. Now that warden locked bows are much more common and are semi-officially a tier above the non-warden equivalent bows, it might be an overkill.
If this ranged is strong relative to the other classes, it might have reached the point where it doesn't matter if sentinel has 1hs 'way' better than legi and aven, simply because warden could have killed the nords before needing to engage in melee at all. Same goes for sentry and ranger.
I feel that the best solution may be to remove the +1 power draw for warden, and add +40 WPF to the other 3 classes. Then warden might need a SS equivalent warden locked bow, so their only bonus is a unique, superior bow (kinda like chosen without repeaterman as competition).
The other option is to keep the stats the same and ensure warden locked bows are only slightly superior to non-warden locked bows, but this is against the direction that the mod appears to be heading. I still think the complete overhaul the OP is going for is the best option overall, but a warden balance would be a good first step.
RE: The problem of archers - DR. - 07-03-2018
(07-03-2018, 01:50 PM)ItzZocki Wrote:(07-03-2018, 09:19 AM)Julia. Wrote: Ranger is able to wear Gilded Bear Armour, but besides that about 90% of all archers (if not more) are Wardens so tbh I doubt adding new armours will change anything.
If I recall correctly there are (in total) 650+ Warden, around 20 Sentry and Sentinel and uhm probably like 30-40 Rangers (out of all Heros). The only person who actually plays Ranger on a regular basis which I recall is Kaas.
Why do you know the exact number?
Winter said it in ts less than a week ago