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+---- Thread: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) (/showthread.php?tid=71880)
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Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - DR. - 23-05-2019
I'm asking for a mat sink but at the same time, it should be quicker to get hero as a new person but cost about the same if done well.
I've made 2 new Ids this year so yes i know what I'm talking about. The number of mats as new "person" i get is great but the gold i get is so small when hero is a PURE gold sink.
One could make the argument to sell mats on Ah or on the forum but that makes no sense if you will need mats after getting the hero. It's just more work that's not needed on the end user.
I would argue it should be a wealth sink, not just a gold one.
Yes, I agree a hero should cost more than someone that makes a level 52 without spending a thing. Who said it needs to be pure gold tho?
For what the crafted mat may intail im not 100% sure but in my mind i see it being a mini dark offering etc...
JUST AS A EXAMPLE
⇝ Blessed Blade
Items Required:
- 1 x Orichalcum
- 500 x Bent Sword
- 100 x Bone Shard
- 100 x Chain Link
- 100 x Coal
- 500 x Crooked Stick
- 150 x Hardened Metal
- 100 x Heavy Cloth
- 150 x Hydra Leaf
- 150 x Nem Flower
- 500 x Old Boots
- 150 x Shade Ore
- 100 x Sparkly Necklace
- 100 x Spurn Berry
- 100 x Sturdy Wood
- 100 x Twisted String
- 100 x Wolf Teeth Necklace
- 150 x Worm Root
- 2 x Bear Fur
- 5 x Bronze Arrowhead
- 1 x Copper Bar
- 1 x Damascus Steel
- 1 x Eagle Feather
- 5 x Raven Feather
- 5 x Scale of Fafnir
- 10 x Small Lump of Lead
- 2 x Sulphur
- 2 x Water of Hvergelmir
- 5 x Wood of Glasir
- 2 x Zinc Shard
Something like that
Like i said its an example... I would think this could do without blue crafted stuff let alone house crafted stuff as that's a nightmare for some new players to understand.
You could make it a bit more crazy and have smaller mats so it takes 2 or 4 of them to make a hero.
For example Leg maybe
1 x Throwing mat
2 x Armour mat
1 x 1h mat
All with a 100k or some amount of gold in them and a different list of mats
I would maybe make it you don't need crafting at all it just sucks them from your account like how the gold sinks already work.
Or
Make them part of Blacksmith, Alchemist, Armorsmith but then i don't like that idea as then they need help once again.
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - Kriegstofu - 23-05-2019
(23-05-2019, 08:24 AM)Wood Wrote: I've made 2 new Ids this year so yes i know what I'm talking about. The number of mats as new "person" i get is great but the gold i get is so small when hero is a PURE gold sink.
do you convert all assist xp into gold or to level up?
It really is hard to amass all the mats tho
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - Malong - 23-05-2019
The proportion of new players that train hero class instead of craft support items which cost less than said hero class is incredibly high as is. Requiring materials for hero would probably make it worse. Keep the system the same.
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - DR. - 23-05-2019
(23-05-2019, 12:58 PM)Kriegstofu Wrote: do you convert all assist xp into gold or to level up?
It really is hard to amass all the mats tho
This is a new Id so do you level up an id by putting your xp into gold?
I only have seen 1 person that has done that and it took him so long he had trans and other shit by then when trans was almost 2m.
The point is if you start making a new hero so going from 0-hero this would be faster or at least easier to obtain the requirements for a hero.
(23-05-2019, 01:11 PM)Malong Wrote: The proportion of new players that train hero class instead of craft support items which cost less than said hero class is incredibly high as is. Requiring materials for hero would probably make it worse. Keep the system the same.
This is basically the argument of what should i get 1st "Thing" or Hero
The answer to that is really up to the player as points can be made for both of them.
Even then its not much of a problem as when you do one you start working on the other normaly.
At some point, you do make a hero for the stats and to be abole to use better gear from light blue to red even some market place crap.
Why someone may do it this way.
Hero
If you pick up items that are better than cts you can use them better then if you picked Cts
...
Cts (for example)
If the run does not have throwing weapons as good as cts you will be stuck with them
...
Now atm cts are no longer close to a Mill they are not even 200k. So most people will have Cts before they go hero now.
However.
Back then good throwing in runs was not as common as it is atm. I would guess the avg run may even have a legendary in it or more.
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - poxix - 23-05-2019
why not paying mats for a respec ?
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - DR. - 23-05-2019
(23-05-2019, 03:38 PM)poxix Wrote: why not paying mats for a respec ?
I think respecs if anything should cost xp.
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - Malong - 23-05-2019
(23-05-2019, 01:40 PM)Woody Wrote:(23-05-2019, 01:11 PM)Malong Wrote: The proportion of new players that train hero class instead of craft support items which cost less than said hero class is incredibly high as is. Requiring materials for hero would probably make it worse. Keep the system the same.
This is basically the argument of what should i get 1st "Thing" or Hero
The answer to that is really up to the player as points can be made for both of them.
Even then its not much of a problem as when you do one you start working on the other normaly.
At some point, you do make a hero for the stats and to be abole to use better gear from light blue to red even some market place crap.
Why someone may do it this way.
Hero
If you pick up items that are better than cts you can use them better then if you picked Cts
...
Cts (for example)
If the run does not have throwing weapons as good as cts you will be stuck with them
...
Now atm cts are no longer close to a Mill they are not even 200k. So most people will have Cts before they go hero now.
However.
Back then good throwing in runs was not as common as it is atm. I would guess the avg run may even have a legendary in it or more.
I specifically mentioned support items. It's bad when you see heroes with normal barricades, particularly when even something like heavy barricade is so inexpensive right now. I did some quick math and you can buy the 85 lumps and 25 waters required for a tome from the auction hall for 700k (i.e. less than hero class) right now. And it would be less if you bought the materials from the forums. Despite this, Ragnarok attempts with terrible barricades and very few tomes are commonplace.
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - DR. - 23-05-2019
I don't think I've seen someone pick support over gear. You saying people should spend almost 50-100% of the wealth they have on a tome/barrel/wall?
If you have 2-3m to your name that's when I would buy a tome but even then why tomes?
For support I always recommend walls to people as
1. Walls are useful in solos
2. A rag run can't win with out cades but it can with out tomes (not counting kiting here as you need to have mid-top gear and need walls more anyway)
3. Tomes can only be "used" 2 times then you are on meds its why I only have 1 barrel to my name as well.
4...
The best cades would be less than a mill so about the same as a tome but far more useful to a new player.
I may add half of the cade is a gold sink like what I'm suggesting for the cost of hero.
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - Malong - 23-05-2019
(23-05-2019, 04:51 PM)Woody Wrote: I don't think I've seen someone pick support over gear.
Read!!!!!!!!! This is about support over hero class, not support over gear.
(23-05-2019, 04:22 PM)Malong Wrote: I specifically mentioned support items. It's bad when you see heroes with normal barricades, particularly when even something like heavy barricade is so inexpensive right now. I did some quick math and you can buy the 85 lumps and 25 waters required for a tome from the auction hall for 700k (i.e. less than hero class) right now. And it would be less if you bought the materials from the forums. Despite this, Ragnarok attempts with terrible barricades and very few tomes are commonplace.
(23-05-2019, 04:51 PM)Woody Wrote: You saying people should spend almost 50-100% of the wealth they have on a tome/barrel/wall?
Fucking read!!!! Nobody mentioned "barrel" nor "wall" until your post, by the way (quick control-f confirms this).
I specifically cited Heavy Barricade as a trivial example and showed the math on Tome. Both cost less than hero class. And yet there are many hero characters in public servers that have normal barricades or heroes that are medics without tomes. Honestly, the only hope for public Ragnarok right now is ranged spam with upgraded red weapons, and this burden would be greatly alleviated with more barricades (and even Heavy Barricade is enough) and Tomes.
What is the point of having a hero with terrible weapons and armour and no support item that is fit for Ragnarok? To have better stats while getting carried?
RE: Making the cost of Hero a crafted mat (like a mini Dark Offering) - DR. - 23-05-2019
Cbf to quote as I'm on a phone
The 1st point can be referenced when I said it's up to the player when he gets hero vs (x) gear. I'm saying support comes in 3rd till you have the basic gear and hero.
"craft support items" from that I was to assume you meant all of them.
Join a server with a value of less than 3m and you are being carried as your game sense is little to none.
What you want is protection ( support ) but for a new person lets face it they will want a better bow and better stats before they get some top crafted support.
Even let's go your way this hypothetical person. He has a tome and ss bow well after that the next stage is a hero. I still think hero costing 50% mats and 50% gold is not just good for him it's good for the market to.
I see no downside to this if the cost is made correctly.