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+---- Thread: Hidden Cave (/showthread.php?tid=72561)
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Hidden Cave - Forward - 24-07-2019
New edition is terrible. Revert it back please.
Old was good for both kiting and cading, new one is bad for everything. And why change good maps if there a lot of bad?
RE: Hidden Cave - Fendi - 24-07-2019
You literally hate everything in the mod anyways.
RE: Hidden Cave - Forward - 25-07-2019
(24-07-2019, 11:20 PM)Quail Wrote: You literally hate everything in the mod anyways.
No. Talking about what I hate is not discussion topic here.
Can you argue why new version is better by your opinion?
RE: Hidden Cave - Fendi - 25-07-2019
I like the change it brings freshness to the maps rather than just removing them. we played it fine earlier but we had cadges and rg's, one of which you also dislike yikes. I also appreciate the work that people put into the maps and they should be given a shot for people to get used to. We tested the new version ages ago in an event I think and it was fun so yeah I like it.
RE: Hidden Cave - Forward - 25-07-2019
(25-07-2019, 01:11 AM)Quail Wrote: I like the change it brings freshness to the maps rather than just removing them. we played it fine earlier but we had cadges and rg's, one of which you also dislike yikes. I also appreciate the work that people put into the maps and they should be given a shot for people to get used to. We tested the new version ages ago in an event I think and it was fun so yeah I like it.
I appreciate the work of people who made old version which was one of my favorite maps, not "work" of people who turned it into unplayable mess.
You can't test it 'ages ago' because it's just released week ago.
RE: Hidden Cave - PioPio - 25-07-2019
I wouldn't say it's unplayable. I finished some rag runs on it with a full team and I finished it with 3 people multiple times. It all depends on the playstyle of your team (where you cade, what's your gear, etc.). It's one of the better kite maps these days as most of them are almost unkiteable at all. It's not the best map, it used to be better, but didn't most of the maps go through that some time in the past? Look at castleyard, hypers hell, swadian folly. Those map used to be the only ones played at events (each of them respectively in their own time). We play port assault on DB events now. I would have never guessed someone's gonna play that unironically.
TL: DR maps change for better or for worse, [stuff] happens
RE: Hidden Cave - Forward - 25-07-2019
(25-07-2019, 12:55 PM)PioPio Wrote: I wouldn't say it's unplayable. I finished some rag runs on it with a full team and I finished it with 3 people multiple times. It all depends on the playstyle of your team (where you cade, what's your gear, etc.). It's one of the better kite maps these days as most of them are almost unkiteable at all. It's not the best map, it used to be better, but didn't most of the maps go through that some time in the past? Look at castleyard, hypers hell, swadian folly. Those map used to be the only ones played at events (each of them respectively in their own time). We play port assault on DB events now. I would have never guessed someone's gonna play that unironically.
TL: DR maps change for better or for worse, [stuff] happens
It was one of the best kite maps. How do you kite new version?
And where do you cade? Space is very limited inside that building. New edition reminds me one removed map with tight cading spot (what was its name? castle with 2 entrances, big dining hall and side tower when everyone caded).
RE: Hidden Cave - DragonFire1 - 30-07-2019
I tend to go through maps that have been the same for awhile and discuss with the devs which maps need an update, need to be removed etc. It was agreed that Hidden Cave needed a little change so I shifted the entrance closer to make it a bit faster, potentially make it easier to deal with nord ranged and try to get more involvement from everyone in the team and not just hide behind 7 walls on a tight bridge for the same left click spam for ranged which sadly is how most maps are.
Currently, it is just myself that (while not in charge of) is normally responsible for fixing map bugs, map edits and handling map submissions. Im open to listining to ideas people have for maps or if people make their own maps or edits in particular. Saying a map is bad is subjective. Some like the change and others dont but thats just game development.
If you want the map to be changed propose ideas to make it better in your opinion or edit it yourself using the map editor and show me. Simply saying "New version is trash change it back" wont get you anywhere.
RE: Hidden Cave - Forward - 30-07-2019
(30-07-2019, 04:21 PM)DragonFire1 Wrote: not just hide behind 7 walls on a tight bridge for the same left click spam for ranged which sadly is how most maps are.
That was brilliant spot I loved.
(30-07-2019, 04:21 PM)DragonFire1 Wrote: If you want the map to be changed propose ideas to make it better in your opinion or edit it yourself using the map editor and show me. Simply saying "New version is trash change it back" wont get you anywhere.As archer main I like to play maps with long shooting ranges and kite routes. Exactly like old map version was.
I understand that various players like different map styles. But what about having various map styles in the pool and not making infantry-oriented maps from ranged-oriented ones? All I see you removing shooting ranges from maps. Like on Keancuop Forest. Or on Praven. Mountain Outpost was removed from rotation pool at all.
Not all players like your playing style, please keep maps diversity, kiting ability and shooting ranges on some of them. If you want to make more infantry-oriented maps please fix ones which seldom used and disliked by players (like Hidden Farm, Fortress Outskirts, Fortress Under Siege, Forgotten Bay, Swadian Lighthouse) instead of classic well-respected maps like RIP old Hidden Cave.
RE: Hidden Cave - DragonFire1 - 31-07-2019
All maps are playable with some better than others but what defines a good map? One thats engaging and looks unique or one where you can sit behind barricades and not have to worry about anything killing you? I myself was not responsible for Keancoup forest or Praven as those we made/edited by other persons at the time. Mountain Outpost was decided to be removed as it had numerous problems with it such as just being one straight run to the cade area/s and just a shooting gallery.
As mentioned, its personal preference if someone likes or dislikes a map as shown by comments above which also accounts for "play styles". I have differant ideas for differant maps but as currently the only mapper around this takes alot of time to do and additionally since I am just a contributor with a busy life outside of this game. Going by again what I have said previously, saying "fix X map" without providing an idea to go with isnt helpful. If maps can be completed on ragnarok with minimal to no effort then they need an edit to them or if theyve been the way they have for a long time and need an update. (Trader's valley for instance)