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+---- Thread: Hero stats wish list. (/showthread.php?tid=73875)
Hero stats wish list. - DR. - 08-02-2020
I know some things are planned In the next update so I'm going to say what I would like to see as a wish list. I'm going to talk about hero stats but I may talk about some items If I feel it's necessary.
I'm going to try to be objective as I can. Ill will reference other heroes or item at times to give an idea on why I think something is out of place.
Hoplite
Give Hoplite the same skill Marauder has In [Polearm mounted/Polearm]. Currently, anyone that plays Hoplite has a disadvantage for no reason... It would be like if Chosen Marksman or Repeaterman was better than the other at Crossbow skill. In fact, this was a thing with Cm having more skill then it got changed for this exact reason... Why didn't this change as well...
In theory, you could buff Hoplite in only mounted Polearm to make it better than the 225 Mara has to make it a really good Cav hero...? I'm more for them having the same but I would be happy with that as well.
Read #4 for an update
Pavise Champion
Give Pavise Champion 10 shielding or extra Hp or both. Rg over the years has been given a lot of buffs to the point I feel this is justified.
All Inf heroes have extra hp and as a shielder, this helps so much on bots like Thor and Odin. Rg just having more armour already helps so much. I understand yes Rg should be the best at shielding but atm its a lot more feasible to shield with Jugg, Zwei... than Pavise Champion a lot of times.
Legionnaire
This could be the controversial one as it will be talking about Legionnaire... Terath has agreed it probably needs a nerf or at least a change but its too late to do anything big.
To keep as many Legionnaire players happy is what I'm aiming for here. I feel most players that use Legionnaire throw considerable more than they use melee, for this reason, I think this is where the change should happen at this point. I would probably make the shielding 7 but more important I would trade the 1h skill with Sentinels. This would only nerf 1h by 20 points so the change is small to those that play with only throwing then use a 1h as back up. It would also make sense to take away the extra hp when he's not in melee given that's what it was added for.
Juggernaut
Why does Juggernaut get extra 1h/2h stats? It's nice and doesn't feel game breaking but I think Jugg approaches to close to Zwei and Leg in being a melee hero. Even more so after last thing with the Legionnaire change.
I think 200 on each + we got something else in return would be better for the Jugg players and Zwei/Leg players. For me personly I would like this change to be on extra Hp. I would move it on top of the normal Hp and make it a constant regen. Heals are so inconsistent even more so in public it's Juggs biggest downside by far. To play Jugg right now It feels like you are playing a glass cannon, not because of weak armour but because so inconsistent. Zwei and Leg should be more inconsistent but have the ability to out damage Jugg if you don't get killed. Jugg should be the definition of consistent in terms of melee.
Sentry, Marauder and Zweihander
Comparing Mara vs Zwei... Sentry comes off as a joke almost or at least an afterthought. The argument I've been given for why Sentry is in this place from Terath is something on the lines of. "Bows have a longer reach than throwing." Ok?... Think this is somewhat accurate but is not very relevant... Why are daggers so popular then...? Anyway, this would be applied to all sniper heroes vs pike heroes. The trade-off from having a bow is the lower armour at least in my eyes. This can be seen If I was to compare Warden to Mp. People cant say one is clearly better than the other at ranged as they do different things. The same is not said with Mara vs Sentry I think one is clearly better In most cases. The one point Sentry has is that the 2h's are the fastest in the game but in the real world that doesn't make up for all the shortcomings.
Zwei just has better tools as a slasher. Having the best armour, more hp and something people forget is how good a shield can be for a slasher. Sentry and Mara are defenceless given they require someone/thing to take the hit most of the time. Zwei, on the other hand, can be his own back up if none else is there.
Mara will have ok armour, longer items that can do some cool things and well more items in general. Given your throwing can take up 1 slot vs the 2 it needs on Sentry (bow/arrows) that is a massive advantage in you can carry more melee tools but still have throwing on you.
I would suggest leaving Mara were it is as it seems like it's in a good place. For Zwei and Sentry, I would change a few things... Zwei I would like to keep in mind how to make it different not just from Sentry and Mara but from Jugg aswell. Fundamentally Jugg and Zwei share the same roll but to make him more different I would make Zwei faster. I'm thinking 9 maybe even 10 Athletics making yes faster than Legionnaire. Keep in mind how heavy hammers can be and it's not like he has any throwing so he can't really kite. I would also buff the Zwei 2h's as they currently don't follow the 4c + 3p + 2 speed. This would put Legacy at 74c ish. So this isn't an outright buff I would do what said with Legionnaire and Sentinel I would trade the 2h skill with Sentrys. This would put Zwei at 220 and Sentry at 240 so not much of a change anyway.
To start with Sentry I would make the Sentry 2h's on par with the Zwei ones... They are currently closer to an all heroes 2h for Inf (Terath said that). For what that looks like idk. I would also say you can nerf the Hp to 5 or 6 to give Sentry extra hp when you have melee out. I'm not sure if Mara/Hoplite need extra hp but Ill put that suggestion on the table.
This makes Zwei the safer pick for a slasher (Jugg being even safer at the cost of other things), Mara a midpoint that can do things the others can't and Sentry the best DPS If you don't get hit and If you can reach them...
Sentinel and Aventurier
Extra hp when using melee would be nice. I think I like the idea you make both of them back up shielders like how Hoplite/Zwei/Jugg/Leg is atm with 8 shield skill. I think I would be ok giving Sentinel the 8 because why not cant hurt but not sure about Aventurier given we have Pavise Champion at 9/10. For what shields they can use well I think something like this sounds fair. https://i.gyazo.com/54ae2df7a998c110426794115cde8c0e.png Each class that should shield or could shield has 2 shields they can pick from other than Sok and Tower.
For what else other than Sentinel getting the 240 1h from Legionnaire no idea.
RE: Hero stats wish list. - Forward - 08-02-2020
Can't say I agree with current class balance, but your proposed changes will only make it worse.
RE: Hero stats wish list. - Kriegstofu - 08-02-2020
(08-02-2020, 12:50 PM)Woody Wrote: I know some things are planned In the next update so Tofu is going to say what Tofu would like to see as a wish list. I'm going to talk about hero stats but I may talk about some items If I feel it's necessary.
I'm going to try to be objective as I can. Ill will reference other heroes or item at times to give an idea on why I think something is out of place.
Hoplite
Is able to shield while Mara isn't, Tigerscale armor is Mara and MP locked just as POL is not usable by RG but Zwei and Legio only
Pavise Champion
10% damage soak on body armor instead
Legionnaire
It would also make sense to take away the extra hp when he's not in melee given that's what it was added for.
Juggernaut
Faster HP regen (Green Bar)
Sentry, Marauder and Zweihander
Green Bar for Sentry melee, leave the rest alone. Mara can't shield but run away with rangeds while zwei is a tank slasher with the ability to shield in case. Zwei is a better shielder than a hoplite due to more health and armor in thor wave etc.
Sentinel VS Sentry
Sentry more HP, Sentinel more PS
Sentinel and Aventurier
Green Bars in melee for both and a lighter armor for poor aventurier
RE: Hero stats wish list. - DR. - 08-02-2020
(08-02-2020, 01:12 PM)Kriegstofu Wrote: Hoplite
Is able to shield while Mara isn't, Tigerscale armor is Mara and MP locked just as POL is not usable by RG but Zwei and Legio only
![[Image: bb91dd63408e939b5e9e1831d68f18bb.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/bb91dd63408e939b5e9e1831d68f18bb.png)
![[Image: d6b66497cd340bf9903604f23d1e251e.png]](https://i.gyazo.com/d6b66497cd340bf9903604f23d1e251e.png)
He can shield but don't overrate how good 8 shielding is... The basic skill does not make him a "shielder" the same way you don't call Zwei a "shielder". In fact, this is why It has been made up with the + 3Hp I forgot about.
The problem Is I can pick up an upgraded Elegy as Mara use it a lot better than a Hoplite can use his own tool. I'm fine with that if they were radically different classes but we are talking about 2 melee pike heroes here... This is hence why I use the example of Cm vs Repeaterman.
The extra hp is an oversight... My bad... I would be willing to take a guess that a lot if not most Hoplite players would be willing to trade the extra hp they have on Mara for better polearm skill. Ideally, I would want them the same then differ in other areas but... At this point, I can see it about this. https://i.gyazo.com/f82b336323fe8b49a8b4cd969d189735.png
Armour wise that's got nothing to do with what I said. Nothing is stopping the next update adding in a locked body armour for Hoplite that's better than Tsa given its 1 hero, not 2. Suggesting new items for heroes is not for this topic tho.