Build points

[Kaasovic]

Ah, nice ideology you have here. But maybe your dev team ideology is wrong, if so many people here against it? Personally I liked this mod because it was casual and relaxing. If I would wanted challenging gameplay there are a lot of other M&B mods and other games.
All recent changes were terrible for me. Adding OP health to infantry, new useless bots and maps, and building system is broken now.
Instead of fixing real problems plaguing this mod for ages. But since it's dead who cares now, new building system has made all other problems insignificant, well done.

Spoiler

We can't fix "problems" if we are unaware.

The build point were introduced to limit the amount of barricades being build. Before the support overhaul was integrated it was very common to see people walling of everything and turn it into a ranged fest, basically requiring no skill at all. ...

Wouldn't it make sense to dynamically adjust the building points which are added every wave based on the number of people on the server? Or the number of engineers and their skill level? Or the game mode? As it is right now (with a flat 6 points per wave), less populated servers almost never run out of building points, whereas full servers (at least public ones) seem to have more issues with that. Which isn't all too surprising considering that larger Nord waves do much more damage to cades whereas the pool of newly available building points is the same no matter if it's going to be a handful or a large horde of Nords.

It totally makes sense. I have been made aware either in PM or on this thread that the barricades of new players are obsolete the majority of times. I overlooked this while this system was implemented and I want to thank you chaps for bringing that up. I'll add a poll to the OP that'll serve as a referendum on this matter. The outcome will be listened to and applied in a later patch.

As for the all of the of tower defense games I have played, all relied on skill and knowledge when certain "items" had to be "placed" etc. I don't know why the "tower defense" strategy in NordInvasion has to be skilless to a point where you can brain afk, but whatever I don't think that discussing this would be on topic.

[Lyrithi]

Wouldn't it make sense to dynamically adjust the building points which are added every wave based on the number of people on the server? Or the number of engineers and their skill level? Or the game mode? As it is right now (with a flat 6 points per wave), less populated servers almost never run out of building points, whereas full servers (at least public ones) seem to have more issues with that. Which isn't all too surprising considering that larger Nord waves do much more damage to cades whereas the pool of newly available building points is the same no matter if it's going to be a handful or a large horde of Nords.

+1

Like the idea, build points can stay, just need some tuning. It is new after all and problems most of the time can't be seen until the system is tested by alot of different people with different playstyles.

[Forward]

Ah, nice ideology you have here. But maybe your dev team ideology is wrong, if so many people here against it? Personally I liked this mod because it was casual and relaxing. If I would wanted challenging gameplay there are a lot of other M&B mods and other games.
All recent changes were terrible for me. Adding OP health to infantry, new useless bots and maps, and building system is broken now.
Instead of fixing real problems plaguing this mod for ages. But since it's dead who cares now, new building system has made all other problems insignificant, well done.

Spoiler

We can't fix "problems" if we are unaware.

The build point were introduced to limit the amount of barricades being build. Before the support overhaul was integrated it was very common to see people walling of everything and turn it into a ranged fest, basically requiring no skill at all. ...

Wouldn't it make sense to dynamically adjust the building points which are added every wave based on the number of people on the server? Or the number of engineers and their skill level? Or the game mode? As it is right now (with a flat 6 points per wave), less populated servers almost never run out of building points, whereas full servers (at least public ones) seem to have more issues with that. Which isn't all too surprising considering that larger Nord waves do much more damage to cades whereas the pool of newly available building points is the same no matter if it's going to be a handful or a large horde of Nords.

It totally makes sense. I have been made aware either in PM or on this thread that the barricades of new players are obsolete the majority of times. I overlooked this while this system was implemented and I want to thank you chaps for bringing that up. I'll add a poll to the OP that'll serve as a referendum on this matter. The outcome will be listened to and applied in a later patch.

As for the all of the of tower defense games I have played, all relied on skill and knowledge when certain "items" had to be "placed" etc. I don't know why the "tower defense" strategy in NordInvasion has to be skilless to a point where you can brain afk, but whatever I don't think that discussing this would be on topic.

Just remove them, they are useless. It's a best and easiest solution by far. Cades are limited already anyway by respawns.

And about dev team ideology, again. You're making game not for yourselves, but for players. But you can make perfect "skill-required" game for yourselves no one else will play, sure.

Problems in the past, before building system has killed the mod:
- what about the problem with late joiners and leechers, which alone made non-incentive to start public Rags, spending time on unrewarding first waves only to have full server on wave 10, and it's good if they have any support and any gear?
- infantry completely overpowered, it's just funny how you ask for more skill-required game and implement feature which allow inf to easy faceroll over Hard, not even mention Normal. Separated servers for ranged and inf would help.
- boorish commoner, just bad design both model-wise and gameplay-wise, makes no sense at all.
- many other small annoying things like new bad maps in rotation, bots shooting through small holes in some maps, still bad T3 models and such.
- some things which I forgot, there was more, I'm sure.
- solo kite or tiny teams servers would be nice addition too.

EDIT:
- also trees on Hell and Castleyard, should be removed long ago, for sure. There is "unofficial" texture fix, it's like cheating, but bots cheat shooting through them too, you know.
- how can I forget main issue with the mod? Healthbar script! Should be added to main game long ago.

If you not sure what players want, just make polls, really good idea. Just hope long-time active community members will vote, not just randoms who leave the mod after a week playing.

EDIT2:
And some of problems I mentioned would be fixed easily by implementing join vote: when new player joins the server he could not join team until majority of current players will not vote against. And it will not increase toxicity, people don't hate new players and like them to grow. But people hate when new players leech and ruin Rags.

EDIT3:
Problem: Guys with Cursed Deadshot stealing all boss kills (yes, I know, they deserve to get something for suffering with this weapon). Solution: Give everyone else on the server 0.1 of every Boss kill for quest purposes. This way you should for example either kill 3 Odins by yourself with your Deadshot or just participate in 30 successful runs, still a lot, but at least you feel having progress with your quest and not just mad after ***hole stealed your boss again regardless you mentioned you need the kill several times.

[Srellian]

- infantry completely overpowered, it's just funny how you ask for more skill-required game and implement feature which allow inf to easy faceroll over Hard, not even mention Normal. Separated servers for ranged and inf would help.

This so much. Nobody plays ranged anymore because of how OP infantry has become.
Just join a server and you will see what the game is now. You will only find only commandos.

[Sir Baron]

Ah, nice ideology you have here. But maybe your dev team ideology is wrong, if so many people here against it? Personally I liked this mod because it was casual and relaxing. If I would wanted challenging gameplay there are a lot of other M&B mods and other games.
All recent changes were terrible for me. Adding OP health to infantry, new useless bots and maps, and building system is broken now.
Instead of fixing real problems plaguing this mod for ages. But since it's dead who cares now, new building system has made all other problems insignificant, well done.

Spoiler

We can't fix "problems" if we are unaware.

The build point were introduced to limit the amount of barricades being build. Before the support overhaul was integrated it was very common to see people walling of everything and turn it into a ranged fest, basically requiring no skill at all. ...

Wouldn't it make sense to dynamically adjust the building points which are added every wave based on the number of people on the server? Or the number of engineers and their skill level? Or the game mode? As it is right now (with a flat 6 points per wave), less populated servers almost never run out of building points, whereas full servers (at least public ones) seem to have more issues with that. Which isn't all too surprising considering that larger Nord waves do much more damage to cades whereas the pool of newly available building points is the same no matter if it's going to be a handful or a large horde of Nords.

It totally makes sense. I have been made aware either in PM or on this thread that the barricades of new players are obsolete the majority of times. I overlooked this while this system was implemented and I want to thank you chaps for bringing that up. I'll add a poll to the OP that'll serve as a referendum on this matter. The outcome will be listened to and applied in a later patch.

As for the all of the of tower defense games I have played, all relied on skill and knowledge when certain "items" had to be "placed" etc. I don't know why the "tower defense" strategy in NordInvasion has to be skilless to a point where you can brain afk, but whatever I don't think that discussing this would be on topic.

Just remove them, they are useless. It's a best and easiest solution by far. Cades are limited already anyway by respawns.

And about dev team ideology, again. You're making game not for yourselves, but for players. But you can make perfect "skill-required" game for yourselves no one else will play, sure.

Problems in the past, before building system has killed the mod:
- what about the problem with late joiners and leechers, which alone made non-incentive to start public Rags, spending time on unrewarding first waves only to have full server on wave 10, and it's good if they have any support and any gear?
- infantry completely overpowered, it's just funny how you ask for more skill-required game and implement feature which allow inf to easy faceroll over Hard, not even mention Normal. Separated servers for ranged and inf would help.
- boorish commoner, just bad design both model-wise and gameplay-wise, makes no sense at all.
- many other small annoying things like new bad maps in rotation, bots shooting through small holes in some maps, still bad T3 models and such.
- some things which I forgot, there was more, I'm sure.
- solo kite or tiny teams servers would be nice addition too.

EDIT:
- also trees on Hell and Castleyard, should be removed long ago, for sure. There is "unofficial" texture fix, it's like cheating, but bots cheat shooting through them too, you know.
- how can I forget main issue with the mod? Healthbar script! Should be added to main game long ago.

If you not sure what players want, just make polls, really good idea. Just hope long-time active community members will vote, not just randoms who leave the mod after a week playing.

EDIT2:
And some of problems I mentioned would be fixed easily by implementing join vote: when new player joins the server he could not join team until majority of current players will not vote against. And it will not increase toxicity, people don't hate new players and like them to grow. But people hate when new players leech and ruin Rags.

Funny how less then 6 months ago you would be hard pressed to find 2-3 Infantry in a sever
Infantry on normal mode has not changed like at all in the last year
Not sense Jugg came out
The Extra HP is only on Hard and Rag
And it's less on Hard

And for the record I would love to kick AFK/leechers if they are reported and I am available

[Malong]

As for the all of the of tower defense games I have played, all relied on skill and knowledge when certain "items" had to be "placed" etc. I don't know why the "tower defense" strategy in NordInvasion has to be skilless to a point where you can brain afk, but whatever I don't think that discussing this would be on topic.

I recall you once brought up Killing Floor as an example. I played the hell out of that game (check my Steam achievements), and I will tell you it is _absolutely_ "brain afk." Just like NI, you just find the camp spot and fire when they come in. And it's even simpler than NI because any team composition can win and there aren't barricades. And Killing Floor 2 is even easier.

[Forward]

And for the record I would love to kick AFK/leechers if they are reported and I am available

People seems to have different definition what leecher is.

But it's off-topic, let's discuss Building Points here. I mentioned all these things only because Kaasovic said he unaware of this mod issues.

[Julia.]

And for the record I would love to kick AFK/leechers if they are reported and I am available

People seems to have different definition what leecher is.

But it's off-topic, let's discuss Building Points here. I mentioned all these things only because Kaasovic said he unaware of this mod issues.

You do have a point with pointing those issues out.

The new cades had a first fix, but still aint on point (but thats atleast modelwise a minor issue).

About leechers, there are diffrent types:
1. Ppl going afk for a long time (which can be reported and dealt with easily)
2. Ppl doing nothing unless bots are right at the cades ((and not peeking ranged if nessecary eventhou there are spots and plenty of ranged nords left) cant report them for that).
3. New players who stay back and dont do stuff. Depending on map and class this is toleratable. For example, a inf cant do sth (effective on certain maps and mods) unless theres someone who is able to bring them a xbow, which is fine. This definatly does not go for the ranged classes.
4. Ppl going afk for a short period of time just to return and start double-peeking. Dangerous as you never know when they'll return. (And hard to actually report as double-peeking aint in the rules).
5. Trolls. Play normal as anyone else but start to place cades and wasting buildpoints. Wasting tomes through dieing pretty often and spamming "Tome". Wasting barrels by detonating without the need to. Not bringing any support themselves and just relying on others to carry them.

Idk if I missed sth here. I know its off-topic. But thats just a heads-up to what I can (or can not report) regarding leechers.

About the build-points.

Point 1: We're restricted by spawns, so why would we also be restricted by an adfitional number (not taking into account which mode or amount of players there are). I would like to see the build points removed.

Point 2: If you would keep/change the buildpoints I'd encourage that we can build as many cades of the specific type once the engineer bringing it is in the server with just having a restriction on the amount over buildpoints and not both sides.

[Faravin]

go back to old system please

[Malong]

go back to old system please