2018 Recap and Upcoming Plans
#31
(08-01-2019, 04:16 PM)Sir Baron Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 04:05 PM)Forward Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 04:00 PM)Green_Dragon Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:16 PM)Forward Wrote: The truth is always simple.

Man! Are you serious? Are you even capable of taking into consideration that something is in
the process here and tried to sort out for the vast majority without neglecting a minority?
Or is it due to the sentence I quoted, being such a vital part of your philosophy that this simply
makes no sense for you? Can you not just give it a go?!

How much time more we need to spend on this new build system to admit that it's not going to work?

How many more people should leave?

How many servers more should be shut down?

Would you please name 5 people who have left because of the build points?

I don't have players statistics data and can judge only by my friendlist, and there are much much less people who still play NI.

As game admin you have players statistics for sure. So, by that data, how many people play now and how many played half year ago (before 'innovations')?

Of course, everyone could left by his own reasons; but statistics for whole NI population can't deceive. But even polls confirm that people don't like new system, it's obvious enough, don't need mental equilibristics to ask for 80% 'decisive majority' to be against it.
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#32
(08-01-2019, 03:56 PM)Forward Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:28 PM)Kaasovic Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:16 PM)Forward Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 02:54 PM)Kaasovic Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 02:39 PM)Forward Wrote: Seems like nothing to discuss here anymore.

With such policy the whole mod will be dead soon after AU servers.

If you read through the rest of my posts you can probably enlighten yourself some more, but seeing you are blinded by your own radical vision I'll try to explain it one more time. Yes a majority voted to remove build points. No it's not a decisive majority, over 80% for example. We have received constructive feedback on possible ways to alter the buildpoints. Rather then throwing that away, we are going review that and come up with a PoC. We might run a second poll depending on the views within the development team.

Majority voted with their feet and went afg long before that poll. 76% of current players don't like your feature and you can't ignore it.

No need to discuss it again and again on developers' forum.

The truth is always simple.

Just remove them.

You really having a hard time reading and understanding what I am trying to say don't you. We are reviewing the feedback provided by the 13 percent that proposed altering the current system. We know that the 63 percent wants and we know what the 24 percent wants and now we are trying to create a PoC that might work for all. In none of my posts I explicitly said I am going to ignore any of the groups.

You're having really hard time understanding what I'm trying to say to you as well.

No need to spend weeks reviewing feedback and trying to create something which might work (and might not!) if there is a simple, easy and effective solution available if form of removing build points completely.

Moreover, you can make another poll about which building system people like more (old or new). So may be old system was better then new that means whole old system should be restored in it's full glory? That might be another alternative solution of this build points problem. Because in reality even removing them will only partially solve the issues in new build and whole support system.

The "old system" is never coming back, not going to make a poll on that.
There is absolutely no reason to apply styling to text to emphasize your arguments, I am more then capable to read.
I fear that by removing build points at this moment, we'll fall back into a state where there is a huge imbalance between ranged and melee classes, which was one of the main aspects of introducing build points. I also don't think, like Terath pointed out to me in a PM, that the majority of failures in runs are because of the lack of build points, but more because there is not enough barricades being build, not enough players equipped for Ragnarok, or just people not paying attention in general.

I'll have to ask; if so many of your views and the views of developers misalign, why bother sticking around? It's not like the majority of your radical views will ever find their way in game.
Winnie the Pooh 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功
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#33
tbh I personally like the limited amount of cades you are able to build...
a few times already 2-4 infs grouped up, shielding the whole team for several if not all waves (yes even ragnarok) which was quite a good feeling
definetly helps to enjoy playing with others in a team
Legendary Drops:

Penetrator 02.01.2019
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#34
(08-01-2019, 05:42 PM)Kaasovic Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:56 PM)Forward Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:28 PM)Kaasovic Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:16 PM)Forward Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 02:54 PM)Kaasovic Wrote: If you read through the rest of my posts you can probably enlighten yourself some more, but seeing you are blinded by your own radical vision I'll try to explain it one more time. Yes a majority voted to remove build points. No it's not a decisive majority, over 80% for example. We have received constructive feedback on possible ways to alter the buildpoints. Rather then throwing that away, we are going review that and come up with a PoC. We might run a second poll depending on the views within the development team.

Majority voted with their feet and went afg long before that poll. 76% of current players don't like your feature and you can't ignore it.

No need to discuss it again and again on developers' forum.

The truth is always simple.

Just remove them.

You really having a hard time reading and understanding what I am trying to say don't you. We are reviewing the feedback provided by the 13 percent that proposed altering the current system. We know that the 63 percent wants and we know what the 24 percent wants and now we are trying to create a PoC that might work for all. In none of my posts I explicitly said I am going to ignore any of the groups.

You're having really hard time understanding what I'm trying to say to you as well.

No need to spend weeks reviewing feedback and trying to create something which might work (and might not!) if there is a simple, easy and effective solution available if form of removing build points completely.

Moreover, you can make another poll about which building system people like more (old or new). So may be old system was better then new that means whole old system should be restored in it's full glory? That might be another alternative solution of this build points problem. Because in reality even removing them will only partially solve the issues in new build and whole support system.

The "old system" is never coming back, not going to make a poll on that.
There is absolutely no reason to apply styling to text to emphasize your arguments, I am more then capable to read.
I fear that by removing build points at this moment, we'll fall back into a state where there is a huge imbalance between ranged and melee classes, which was one of the main aspects of introducing build points. I also don't think, like Terath pointed out to me in a PM, that the majority of failures in runs are because of the lack of build points, but more because there is not enough barricades being build, not enough players equipped for Ragnarok, or just people not paying attention in general.

I'll have to ask; if so many of your views and the views of developers misalign, why bother sticking around? It's not like the majority of your radical views will ever find their way in game.

  1. 'The "old system" is never coming back'. Why? If new system is worse these is no reason to keep it.
  2. There is not forum rule again styling to text to emphasize some thesises, so why not, it makes text easier to read.
  3. NI don't need melee classes in that form you try to make them work. Whole idea of buffing infantry had leaded to this mod decline.
  4. Completely agree, not only building points lead to Rag fails, but whole new building system does.
  5. Not only 'my views'. Whooping 63% of players voted decisevely to remove build points. If views of developers and players misalign - developers might be wrong, otherwise it's going to be dead mod soon. You make the game to players play it. Play it the way they found it fun. You can't tell them what fun and what not. You just make features to make them happy. Happy players mean donations, donations mean don't need to shut down AU servers. It's just first call. First AU, then NA and then whole mod is dead.
  6. I'm practicing my English and have a lot of pleasure from our discussions here. My views are not radical at all and I hope they will find their way into the game some day.
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#35
Is the new building system really that big of a deal? I didn't vote in that poll but I also prefer the new system - made the game harder in a way, especially Ragnarok which is supposed to be hard.
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#36
(08-01-2019, 06:05 PM)Forward Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 05:42 PM)Kaasovic Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:56 PM)Forward Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:28 PM)Kaasovic Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 03:16 PM)Forward Wrote: Majority voted with their feet and went afg long before that poll. 76% of current players don't like your feature and you can't ignore it.

No need to discuss it again and again on developers' forum.

The truth is always simple.

Just remove them.

You really having a hard time reading and understanding what I am trying to say don't you. We are reviewing the feedback provided by the 13 percent that proposed altering the current system. We know that the 63 percent wants and we know what the 24 percent wants and now we are trying to create a PoC that might work for all. In none of my posts I explicitly said I am going to ignore any of the groups.

You're having really hard time understanding what I'm trying to say to you as well.

No need to spend weeks reviewing feedback and trying to create something which might work (and might not!) if there is a simple, easy and effective solution available if form of removing build points completely.

Moreover, you can make another poll about which building system people like more (old or new). So may be old system was better then new that means whole old system should be restored in it's full glory? That might be another alternative solution of this build points problem. Because in reality even removing them will only partially solve the issues in new build and whole support system.

The "old system" is never coming back, not going to make a poll on that.
There is absolutely no reason to apply styling to text to emphasize your arguments, I am more then capable to read.
I fear that by removing build points at this moment, we'll fall back into a state where there is a huge imbalance between ranged and melee classes, which was one of the main aspects of introducing build points. I also don't think, like Terath pointed out to me in a PM, that the majority of failures in runs are because of the lack of build points, but more because there is not enough barricades being build, not enough players equipped for Ragnarok, or just people not paying attention in general.

I'll have to ask; if so many of your views and the views of developers misalign, why bother sticking around? It's not like the majority of your radical views will ever find their way in game.

  1. 'The "old system" is never coming back'. Why? If new system is worse these is no reason to keep it.
  2. There is not forum rule again styling to text to emphasize some thesises, so why not, it makes text easier to read.
  3. NI don't need melee classes in that form you try to make them work. Whole idea of buffing infantry had leaded to this mod decline.
  4. Completely agree, not only building points lead to Rag fails, but whole new building system does.
  5. Not only 'my views'. Whooping 63% of players voted decisevely to remove build points. If views of developers and players misalign - developers might be wrong, otherwise it's going to be dead mod soon. You make the game to players play it. Play it the way they found it fun. You can't tell them what fun and what not. You just make features to make them happy. Happy players mean donations, donations mean don't need to shut down AU servers. It's just first call. First AU, then NA and then whole mod is dead.
  6. I'm practicing my English and have a lot of pleasure from our discussions here. My views are not radical at all and I hope they will find their way into the game some day.

I already gave an answer on why we are not returning to the old system, shouldn't be too hard to find.
I never mentioned any rules being broken, it's just a personal opinion that there is absolutely no reason to emphasize on words, you can't really call them a thesis, using extra styling, whatever.
It's funny how you keep trying to push your vision of infantry to others. If you would have fully leveled up your infantry character, implying you were actually going for a melee class and not Legionnaire, perhaps you would have experienced how vulnerable is in the open even if only ranged bots are the only ones left. As far as I know people don't create an infantry character to only sit behind the barricades, but to adept a style they feel comfortable with and take the opportunity to sally forth from time.
Great that you agree in your fourth points, now let us process the feedback we have gotten and come up with an alternative that will please everyone.
You are very wrong on your point that this mod will be dead soon. It has supposedly died numerous times, yet it is still here. And that still after 8 years. The Australian community is small and servers have been shutdown before, to only be revived when an influx of Australian player either returned, or new ones started playing. We shape the game in a general direction, people can always play as they like, just because your view is different then other doesn't mean it should be considered as a set example that players should follow, damn that would be boring. I think your views on infantry in this game are pretty much radical. "This mod don't need any melee classes at all, should be 3 leveling lines: archery, crossbows and throwables." this is an example of one of your views where I think a majority would disagree.
While I don't mind answering to critique, I do hate that I have to repeat myself over and over and I guess I can't be the only one to notice your ignorance. Eventually someone's patience might run dry.

I would like to close this subject with a quote of yours: "No insults, I just want to better understand correct behaviour for myself."
Winnie the Pooh 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功
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#37
(08-01-2019, 06:53 PM)Pavel Wrote: Is the new building system really that big of a deal? I didn't vote in that poll but I also prefer the new system - made the game harder in a way, especially Ragnarok which is supposed to be hard.

Excuse me a minute, please. So you guys really think that the bureaucracy (because of ohranenija number BP full of unknown power) should give Ragnarok its complexity? Is it serious? You guys that lacks real life for this? Where you are constantly limited in some points and tell you how and where to spend them?
Maybe we will still allow Ragnarok to be just epic and really legendary, no matter how many barricades you bring? It is at least simply unreasonable. Well, think for yourself. Valkyries descended from the heavens and Jotuns descended from the Northern mountains, sorry but we can not accept them, we can not build a barricade here, because we lack building permits. It may be worth more and the construction license issue? What? I so suspect that many may like this idea.
Loot:
Fiendish bow - 2017
Excalibur - 03.03.18 Loke
Defender Armour - 16.07.18 Thor
Eastern Full Scale - 03.09.2018 Einherjar Pikeman

Steam
excuse me for my English
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#38
(08-01-2019, 07:19 PM)Ken_Repeaterman Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 06:53 PM)Pavel Wrote: Is the new building system really that big of a deal? I didn't vote in that poll but I also prefer the new system - made the game harder in a way, especially Ragnarok which is supposed to be hard.

Excuse me a minute, please. So you guys really think that the bureaucracy (because of ohranenija number BP full of unknown power) should give Ragnarok its complexity? Is it serious? You guys that lacks real life for this? Where you are constantly limited in some points and tell you how and where to spend them?
Maybe we will still allow Ragnarok to be just epic and really legendary, no matter how many barricades you bring? It is at least simply unreasonable. Well, think for yourself. Valkyries descended from the heavens and Jotuns descended from the Northern mountains, sorry but we can not accept them, we can not build a barricade here, because we lack building permits. It may be worth more and the construction license issue? What? I so suspect that many may like this idea.

Hmm, well, by harder I meant that now it's not as easy to turn the game into a shooting gallery (blocking off the nords and spend 16 waves simply shooting them). It's the only thing I didn't like about the mod but that's just my personal preference of course Wink I do think the system needs to be balanced though
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#39
(08-01-2019, 08:40 PM)Pavel Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 07:19 PM)Ken_Repeaterman Wrote:
(08-01-2019, 06:53 PM)Pavel Wrote: Is the new building system really that big of a deal? I didn't vote in that poll but I also prefer the new system - made the game harder in a way, especially Ragnarok which is supposed to be hard.

Excuse me a minute, please. So you guys really think that the bureaucracy (because of ohranenija number BP full of unknown power) should give Ragnarok its complexity? Is it serious? You guys that lacks real life for this? Where you are constantly limited in some points and tell you how and where to spend them?
Maybe we will still allow Ragnarok to be just epic and really legendary, no matter how many barricades you bring? It is at least simply unreasonable. Well, think for yourself. Valkyries descended from the heavens and Jotuns descended from the Northern mountains, sorry but we can not accept them, we can not build a barricade here, because we lack building permits. It may be worth more and the construction license issue? What? I so suspect that many may like this idea.

Hmm, well, by harder I meant that now it's not as easy to turn the game into a shooting gallery (blocking off the nords and spend 16 waves simply shooting them). It's the only thing I didn't like about the mod but that's just my personal preference of course Wink I do think the system needs to be balanced though

From my experience I have had no real problem with build points or barricades as long as you use a shielder. Without a shielder you are just letting the barricades die and it's no surprise that you are running out of build points.
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#40
As it's been much discussed about players leaving because of the new building system: I strongly doubt if it is the reason of less payers these days except some cases. In Normal and Hard the number of cades available to build is more than enough. In Ragna it may be a problem indeed but do we really need Ragna to be no harder than hard (and this is what we get with 14 tomes and 60 cades)?

I can remember times when it was really difficult to win more than 1 Ragna run out of 3 attempts, with the best possible team gathered for an event. Therefore you might just make a conclusion NI is way too easy these days and that is the reason we have less players, since we've had much more of them few years ago. Such conclusion is incorrect just the same way as the conclusion we have less players because we have the new building system.

As majority of the poll participants would like to have some changes in the current system, it makes sense to try to apply some. But let's not fall into despair, guys. Let's remove the dust from the shields and do some decent shielding instead.
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