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New concept of archers
#21
Weapon classes atm have specialized Armours but its not as good as a true Armour class
Armour classes can have specialized Weapons but its not as good as a true Weapons class

Warden, Senti and Senty (Weapon classes)
Could be given better armour than Leviathan's (all heroes) by being locked to fewer heroes

Ranger (Armour classes)
Could be given a better weapon than Stag or Ullrs (all heroes) at the cost of usability.


It's the same thing...




(04-08-2019, 01:56 PM)Malong Wrote: [W]hy would it be accessible to only Ranger and not the others anyway?

For [W]hy only Ranger well it does not need to be but the point here is to have a better bow than a Ullrs or Stag so no it's not going to be for all heroes we can rule that out.

Just like we have idk Exc vs Rw if this bow was for Ranger + [X] it would not be as good if it was only for Ranger.


Warden does not need access to this bow.

It has atm Stag and Ullrs + Tempest and Typhoon. What it has atm is fine or more than fine vs Senti and Sentry.

If you want a new bow that's more different for Warden well... 

1.
2. Can't be fucked to look at my pm's again just for you but Terath was for making items like Tempest and Typhoon not just better versions of Ullrs and Stag so, in turn, Warden could truly have atm 4 different bows. 
I'm not sure where he stands today on the matter but the point is nothing is stopping Tempest being a lot more different than Typhoon other than possibly salty people from a change.  
Tempest could be that 100 speed or whatever and Typhoon could be a laser beam with really high flight speed. That's just an example but the point is Warden does not need any more items/help when it already has the most out of the 4 sniper heroes.


If you want a new bow for Sentry or Senti or both that makes a bit more sense but I'm still not fully convinced as they are still 1st melee classes. A bow takes away from why you picked them... at least Ranger can use this armour and a bow at the same time here.
Senti and Sentry do need more help I would say than Ranger but giving them a bow I feel is a disservice when the class could be given items to help in what they were made for. 




(04-08-2019, 04:23 PM)Malong Wrote: Not that it doesn't exist, but it's strange that forum search can't find the content of that quote.

Cuz It's a Pm.

If I feel like a request has a better chance of getting done why use the forum unless you want to see the community's opinion or you want to put a light on a subject.

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#22
(03-08-2019, 03:33 PM)Ken_Repeaterman Wrote: Woody's attempt to change the speed of the bows hit a nerve. The thing is, before I came here, I was playing the pirate version of NI for the Archer, so I know what I'm writing about.

I would suggest revising the current concept of archers. They look alike, shoot equally fast and move equally fast.

1) Why there is no slow and killer prototype of the English longbowman? Which could have armor similar to the Guardian armor and copy the Archer of England and it should be really heavy. Only need not write that this Warden. Your Warden has escaped from Assassin's creed. And everyone else got it. 

2) also need a pretty quick Archer, short, mobile, bows, and the prerequisites for this we have. Fiendish and similar bows would be suitable for this class of archers. This archer could wear Tracker Armour and Bear sets and other assassin armor
 
3) Sentry and Sentinel and Ranger could be crossed into one class - "Ranger" and it will really be a real Ranger, ready to engage in close combat and take some damage

And now there is another slot for a brand new Archer class. But please don't need to create Archer hero with polearm + 250 as it was with Sentry. Let's really make the archers interesting and close to reality. 

And personally, I would suggest something new. Why not make a prototype Japanese Archer with a long asymmetrical bow that could be fast and inaccurate in normal mode and slow and accurate in "Sitting"mode. He could wear a Royal set.

Would the Community really prosper from a potential fourth Archer class though? Considering how Archers usually dominate on the battlefield, how would this be balanced for infantry?
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#23
Had people ask what was the idea for Jugg and Halb so I may as well post them here. Sorry, I'm not on the main topic so ill keep it only on this post.

 
Jugg


The Idea for Jugg came to making a new type of bastard weapon and I landed on the idea of you move only 1 item ingame to Jugg that being Morningstar. 

[Image: d178d6d1b8c5abd808678159fc7a39e6.png]

If you have not used it it's the only weapon of its kind in Ni as it's not [C] or [B.] it's [P].




Halb
Terath does have an Idea that would be... what's the word... complex? Lots of work...? I'll let him say it if he wants to. 

I came up with this one last night so this will be new to all. Like how the Jugg and the Ranger weapons do something new this should be unique if we can find away. 

Mara has crush through so I don't think that's the buff. You do have Unbalanced but I'm still not even 100% sure how it works. Now making a spear with knockdown that would be cool.


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#24
That's it. The archers is imbalanced. I propose to keep only the single quick class Archer, with this style of play, what players now - quick, agile, prompt. One class, in my opinion should be heavy and slow longbowman. And I think that he can make a bow with two modes of fire, as Woody wanted. The third class is a Ranger with good health and abilities Sentry and Sentynel. He also inherits their legendary and their weapons. And the fourth class is now possible to think about. I see archers that way because it makes sense. They will all be different and each will have its own feature. If this is implemented, then I will finally be able to make a character Archer. What are archers now leading me to exclamations like "WTF?"
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#25
(05-08-2019, 06:47 AM)oracolus Wrote: Would the Community really prosper from a potential fourth Archer class though? Considering how Archers usually dominate on the battlefield, how would this be balanced for infantry?

Warden. Warden is what comes to mind when most people hear Sniper/Archer.

Leg. Leg is becoming what comes to mind when most people hear Inf/Comando.

Senti Sentry Ranger and Zwei Jugg (maybe Rg) all need help in some way to become relevant. Don't be blind-sighted by 1 class... that's not the full story here.

As pointed out in a different thread Jugg in 1h skill is the same as Senti. Does this mean Jugg is op or does this mean Senti utter garbage as a "1h" hero?

I could go on to point out more but I don't think it's needed.

(05-08-2019, 07:28 AM)Ken_Repeaterman Wrote: That's it. The archers is imbalanced. I propose to keep only the single quick class Archer, with this style of play, what players now - quick, agile, prompt. One class, in my opinion should be heavy and slow longbowman. And I think that he can make a bow with two modes of fire, as  Woody wanted. The third class is a Ranger with good health and abilities Sentry and Sentynel. He also inherits their legendary and their weapons. And the fourth class is now possible to think about. I see archers that way because it makes sense. They will all be different and each will have its own feature. If this is implemented, then I will finally be able to make a character Archer. What are archers now leading me to exclamations like "WTF?"

Warden is a bow/arrows class 1st
Senti is a 1h class 1st
Sentry is a 2h class 1st
Ranger is an armour class 1st


If Ranger and [X] become one class you will make the people that picked that class over the others unhappy. Ranger will no longer be an armour class but an amalgamation with lesser stats in [X] fields.

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#26
just buff rangers hp (inf hp) and armor, sentis/sentrys speed and athlethics to 12 and ps to 10 - problem solved - they hit harder than inf at the expense of being hit harder aswell (as no real armor or inf hp AND speed bonus - works both as an advantage and disadvantage)
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#27
(05-08-2019, 08:40 AM)Kriegstofu Wrote: just buff rangers hp (inf hp) and armor, sentis/sentrys speed and athlethics to 12 and ps to 10 - problem solved - they hit harder than inf at the expense of being hit harder aswell (as no real armor or inf hp AND speed bonus - works both as an advantage and disadvantage)

If any class was to be given more speed it would be Warden with a Nerf to other stats like Hp so it becomes more of a glass cannon but better at kiting if you have the skill to back it up. 

A nerf to how much ammo arrows, bolts and even throwing weapons also does the same job here.

Like how realistic is it really to have 200 arrows + a 2h let alone 300 arrows on cav? If all arrows lost 50% of there ammo but got +1p the mod would be doing a lot better.




Ranger wise what I would do is

-Extra Hp all the time like Inf
-Like Jugg I would make the class slower than the rest for better other stats.
-1 Athletics (7) and -30 One handed 

For

+15 Archery (275) and +40 Two handed (160)

-Make Ranger armour on par with Xbow armour + the 5% Damage Reduction.
Example.

Old Gilded Bear
Body Armour Rating: 64
Leg Armour Rating: 33
Weight: 12
-5% Damage Reduction

For

New Old Gilded Bear
Body Armour Rating: 68
Leg Armour Rating: 33
Weight: 16
-5% Damage Reduction





Sentry wise what I would do is


-Extra Hp only when using a 2h 
-Make Sentry 2hs on par with Zwei ones. Even Terath said they are atm closer to an all heroes inf sword.
-Make Sentry either have the same 2h skill as Zwei or even more given it has a lot less armour. (240+)




Senti wise what I would do is...


Me, Terath and lots of people feel this class needs the most even more than hoplite. 

Atm what I would do is 
-Extra Hp only when using a 1h 
-Make Sentry 1hs on par with Leg ones
-Make Sentry either have the same 1h skill as Leg or even more given it has a lot less armour. (240+)
-Give the class a shield that can be used in the Support (same for avent)
-Give the class 7-8 shielding so its like Zwei, Jugg, Leg and Hoplite. It has the ability to shield but its not a shielder.

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#28
(05-08-2019, 07:49 AM)Woody Wrote:
(05-08-2019, 06:47 AM)oracolus Wrote: Would the Community really prosper from a potential fourth Archer class though? Considering how Archers usually dominate on the battlefield, how would this be balanced for infantry?

Warden. Warden is what comes to mind when most people hear Sniper/Archer.

Leg. Leg is becoming what comes to mind when most people hear Inf/Comando.

Senti Sentry Ranger and Zwei Jugg (maybe Rg) all need help in some way to become relevant. Don't be blind-sighted by 1 class... that's not the full story here.

As pointed out in a different thread Jugg in 1h skill is the same as Senti. Does this mean Jugg is op or does this mean Senti utter garbage as a "1h" hero?
I was talking about Archer classes in generall when i said " Archers usually dominate on the battlefield" if i wanted to be precise then i would have added warden to that statement.

Also, i doubt Archers would be foolhardy enough to attack nords with their melee weapons considering they´ve got their (X)bows to cover for that, unless push comes to shove.
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#29
An Archer wielding a two-handed weapon like zweihander? Just remove zweihander from this game and stop his suffering. Reprint the abuse of this class. please stop insulting zweihander more and more. The Archer must shoot. To do this, he has a bow. Explain to me why the Archer two-handed weapon? He will pull it like an arrow and run into the enemy? This is the shooter - the shooter usually shoots
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Excalibur 18
Defender Armour 18
Eastern Full Scale 18
Glory 19
Dead Shot 19
Leather Overmail 19
Gloves of Vidar 20
Twigs of Iggdrasil 20
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#30
(05-08-2019, 10:50 AM)oracolus Wrote: I was talking about Archer classes in generall when i said " Archers usually dominate on the battlefield" if i wanted to be precise then i would have added warden to that statement.
No, you see mainly Warden not "Archer classes in generall".

I see more Rg's or Jugg's than Ranger's and I'm not even sure when was the last time I saw a Sentry let alone Senti.

Warden is the most picked class by a landslide. Nothing wrong with that but when you compare the numbers to the other sniper classes it starts to look like Warden is being picked 10x more than Senti, Sentry, Ranger combined.

That 10x is a guess but a conservative one as this shows https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1...edit#gid=0

And my memory of when Winter showed use the total amount of heroes made.

It would not surprise me If its atm 1000ish Wardens vs not even 100ish if we count the 3 heroes as the same (not Warden).

(05-08-2019, 10:50 AM)oracolus Wrote: Also, i doubt Archers would be foolhardy enough to attack nords with their melee weapons considering they´ve got their (X)bows to cover for that, unless push comes to shove.

You just gave an answer to why Senti and Sentry need more help than Ranger.





(05-08-2019, 11:05 AM)Ken_Repeaterman Wrote: An Archer wielding a two-handed weapon like zweihander? Just remove zweihander from this game and stop his suffering. Reprint the abuse of this class. please stop insulting zweihander more and more. The Archer must shoot. To do this, he has a bow. Explain to me why the Archer two-handed weapon? He will pull it like an arrow and run into the enemy? This is the shooter - the shooter usually shoots

Mara. Mara is the 2nd most picked class out of pikeman for the reason it can do 2 things 1st being slash 2nd being throw. It has less armour than Zwei and does not have any shields to its name and no shield skill. It's a glass cannon people are willing to play as the reward for doing so is worth it for a lot of people.

Sentry needs help. [Then] Zwei needs help or Mara needs a nerf. Is it really that hard to see?

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