Question's about Extra Hp

[derJaeger]

Extra HP should be removed, it creates great disbalance between classes.

Melee classes have more normal HP, more armour and ability to use shields anyway by basic NI and whole M&B design. Adding extra HP based on some virtual parameter "because some class related to infantry" is incredibly unfair to all other classes.

If Jugg is a piece of shit by design mistake it's not a reason to disfigure whole game balance. There are other classes there are pieces of shit but no one fixes them ever (and it's for better if you see this balance attempt with "infantry extra hp").

It was and it is my position. Remove infantry extra HP.

why dont you think about it the balance since INF is suppose to be a tank class anyways and its a melee class it is literally the only class dedicated to hand to hand combat it is balance with extra HP its not game breaking it does make a difference it helps the common inf user in certain situations

It's discriminating to whole Pikeman class tree at minimum. It's discriminating to non-Inf shielder classes. It's unfair in too many ways.

What's your point? Inf does not have the ability to kite or kill bots in ranged(except legio). Pikeman on the other hand can kite(as hoplite even in melee), is ranged and they don't even do the most dmg in melee. Imo ranged just either get nerfed or inf dmg buffed.

My point is as let's say Zwei you can survive headshot from wave 14 hard Ballistaman and Halb can't. And I don't see how theoretical Halb's ability to kite can justify Zwei have 50% more HP (on top of better armour as well, don't mentioning additional damage reduction on some inf classes we all know). And with combination with new healing system it's ridiculously OP, because 1s later you will be full health again.

The thing is on normal M&B its hard to 1 Shot SB even with xbow You need to make a HS with much bows you dont kill a full Tank inf. But in NI much bots 1hit infs without extra HP think a bit about that Forward i also would like to point out that Halb is a bit more tanky than other pikes and some times he life when a other pike hero would die. so its ok and like the other says the pike dont need to go to front and fight in melee he can but inf musst go on front (without Legio)

[Peleus]

Extra HP should be removed, it creates great disbalance between classes.

Melee classes have more normal HP, more armour and ability to use shields anyway by basic NI and whole M&B design. Adding extra HP based on some virtual parameter "because some class related to infantry" is incredibly unfair to all other classes.

If Jugg is a piece of shit by design mistake it's not a reason to disfigure whole game balance. There are other classes there are pieces of shit but no one fixes them ever (and it's for better if you see this balance attempt with "infantry extra hp").

It was and it is my position. Remove infantry extra HP.

why dont you think about it the balance since INF is suppose to be a tank class anyways and its a melee class it is literally the only class dedicated to hand to hand combat it is balance with extra HP its not game breaking it does make a difference it helps the common inf user in certain situations

It's discriminating to whole Pikeman class tree at minimum. It's discriminating to non-Inf shielder classes. It's unfair in too many ways.

What's your point? Inf does not have the ability to kite or kill bots in ranged(except legio). Pikeman on the other hand can kite(as hoplite even in melee), is ranged and they don't even do the most dmg in melee. Imo ranged just either get nerfed or inf dmg buffed.

My point is as let's say Zwei you can survive headshot from wave 14 hard Ballistaman and Halb can't. And I don't see how theoretical Halb's ability to kite can justify Zwei have 50% more HP (on top of better armour as well, don't mentioning additional damage reduction on some inf classes we all know). And with combination with new healing system it's ridiculously OP, because 1s later you will be full health again.

So you are saying that every tank based class should survive what inf can survive?

[Moose]

Extra HP should be removed, it creates great disbalance between classes.

Melee classes have more normal HP, more armour and ability to use shields anyway by basic NI and whole M&B design. Adding extra HP based on some virtual parameter "because some class related to infantry" is incredibly unfair to all other classes.

If Jugg is a piece of shit by design mistake it's not a reason to disfigure whole game balance. There are other classes there are pieces of shit but no one fixes them ever (and it's for better if you see this balance attempt with "infantry extra hp").

It was and it is my position. Remove infantry extra HP.

why dont you think about it the balance since INF is suppose to be a tank class anyways and its a melee class it is literally the only class dedicated to hand to hand combat it is balance with extra HP its not game breaking it does make a difference it helps the common inf user in certain situations

It's discriminating to whole Pikeman class tree at minimum. It's discriminating to non-Inf shielder classes. It's unfair in too many ways.

What's your point? Inf does not have the ability to kite or kill bots in ranged(except legio). Pikeman on the other hand can kite(as hoplite even in melee), is ranged and they don't even do the most dmg in melee. Imo ranged just either get nerfed or inf dmg buffed.

My point is as let's say Zwei you can survive headshot from wave 14 hard Ballistaman and Halb can't. And I don't see how theoretical Halb's ability to kite can justify Zwei have 50% more HP (on top of better armour as well, don't mentioning additional damage reduction on some inf classes we all know). And with combination with new healing system it's ridiculously OP, because 1s later you will be full health again.

you can kite on halb you cant kite with zwie

[Kriegstofu]

buff melee dmg - problem solved

[Kaasovic]

1) Can it be set up so we have different values for each wave rather than each mode?

I would rather not go through finding an acceptable modifier for each wave, but nerf waves that seems to be too hard. However keep in mind that boss waves and challenge waves are supposed to be, eh, challenging.

2) Cav and Normal want to give us some extra hp?

I am not sure about applying extra health to our normal game mode, I don't want to make it too easy, but as stated above, if there is a wave or bot that seems to be overpowered, I'd rather look into that.

I'll think about cavalry.

3) if most people don't want [normal health to be used first,] could you make it toggle so people can pick how extra hp works for them?

I'll have to rewrite some code and probably add some more, but if that means that players have more freedom of their gameplay, then I am all up to make such setting.

I was thinking about applying extra health to some ranged classes, but only when in melee.

Extra HP should be removed, it creates great disbalance between classes.

Melee classes have more normal HP, more armour and ability to use shields anyway by basic NI and whole M&B design. Adding extra HP based on some virtual parameter "because some class related to infantry" is incredibly unfair to all other classes.

If Jugg is a piece of shit by design mistake it's not a reason to disfigure whole game balance. There are other classes there are pieces of shit but no one fixes them ever (and it's for better if you see this balance attempt with "infantry extra hp").

It was and it is my position. Remove infantry extra HP.

I am really getting tired of reading this every time whenever infantry, extra health or anything related is brought up.
Do you see servers dominated by melee classes? I don't. The amount of times I have seen more melee classes on a server then ranged is close to zero, special events excluded.
Can infantry, in melee, kite on hard or ragnarok servers? Possibly, but again I think the chance is close to zero.
If you really want to see ranged only, go play a FPS.
Knock it off by keep on mentioning it, my patience has run dry.

---

To clarify the formula of how the extra HP works:
- Heals 5 extra health every 5 seconds.
- The extra health is the armour of your body, boots and gloves divided by 3.
- The cooldown for health restoration to kick in is 10 seconds out of combat (not hit for 10 seconds)

[Forward]

I am really getting tired of reading this every time whenever infantry, extra health or anything related is brought up.
Do you see servers dominated by melee classes? I don't. The amount of times I have seen more melee classes on a server then ranged is close to zero, special events excluded.
Can infantry, in melee, kite on hard or ragnarok servers? Possibly, but again I think the chance is close to zero.
If you really want to see ranged only, go play a FPS.
Knock it off by keep on mentioning it, my patience has run dry.

I can tell you from my own experience why I don't play infantry all time. It's too easy. That's all.

I have infantry and pikeman heroes. And I don't understand why it's called balance when as pike I afraid to die from any spit into my side, and as inf I can face tank everything, spam heal and run ahead. It's too easy and boring for me to play this way. I don't know why you think it's balanced.

Question is not even about balancing melee and ranged classes, I can live with melee classes have more hp. Problem you declared infantry heroes as only melee classes above all others and it's unfair to Pike Heroes, Pavise Champions, Aventuriers and even to some extent to non-Warden archers (I would really not against them having 50% more HP, it will not change anything in scale how they suck anyway).

EDIT: It's unfair to hybrids too btw.

[Peleus]

I am really getting tired of reading this every time whenever infantry, extra health or anything related is brought up.
Do you see servers dominated by melee classes? I don't. The amount of times I have seen more melee classes on a server then ranged is close to zero, special events excluded.
Can infantry, in melee, kite on hard or ragnarok servers? Possibly, but again I think the chance is close to zero.
If you really want to see ranged only, go play a FPS.
Knock it off by keep on mentioning it, my patience has run dry.

I can tell you from my own experience why I don't play infantry all time. It's too easy. That's all.

I have infantry and pikeman heroes. And I don't understand why it's called balance when as pike I afraid to die from any spit into my side, and as inf I can face tank everything, spam heal and run ahead. It's too easy and boring for me to play this way. I don't know why you think it's balanced.

Question is not even about balancing melee and ranged classes, I can live with melee classes have more hp. Problem you declared infntry as only melee classes above all others and it's unfair to Pike Heroes, Pavise Champions, Aventuriers and even to some extent to non-Warden archers (I would really not against them having 50% more HP, it will not change anything in scale how they suck anyway).

Did not have that experience with my hoplite(not using shield).

[Forward]

I am really getting tired of reading this every time whenever infantry, extra health or anything related is brought up.
Do you see servers dominated by melee classes? I don't. The amount of times I have seen more melee classes on a server then ranged is close to zero, special events excluded.
Can infantry, in melee, kite on hard or ragnarok servers? Possibly, but again I think the chance is close to zero.
If you really want to see ranged only, go play a FPS.
Knock it off by keep on mentioning it, my patience has run dry.

I can tell you from my own experience why I don't play infantry all time. It's too easy. That's all.

I have infantry and pikeman heroes. And I don't understand why it's called balance when as pike I afraid to die from any spit into my side, and as inf I can face tank everything, spam heal and run ahead. It's too easy and boring for me to play this way. I don't know why you think it's balanced.

Question is not even about balancing melee and ranged classes, I can live with melee classes have more hp. Problem you declared infntry as only melee classes above all others and it's unfair to Pike Heroes, Pavise Champions, Aventuriers and even to some extent to non-Warden archers (I would really not against them having 50% more HP, it will not change anything in scale how they suck anyway).

Did not have that experience with my hoplite(not using shield).

Would be more fair if Hoplite has some extra HP too.

If it can't removed, it should be distributed more fair/evenly amonst the classes. Classes with more ranged abilities should get less extra HP and such. Not as now when infantry heroes are superhumans above everyone else.

[DR.]

To Kaas

1. Ye part of this question was if this would be easier than doing that.

Some waves I think are op for what they are and other are not even a challenge in some cases. Take wave 9 hard for example can't wait till 25-50% have hammers with crush through.

2. like I said in number 1 how long should I be able to last on wave 9 in normal with the best armour adding it's upgraded. I don't want to be invincible on normal. At the same time I don't want people with market place or low end crafted gear not lasting 3secs on wave 9. It's a fine line making the poor feel useful but not making the rich op. Gl with that.

Cav I see as a difficulty would be like all modes as the Nords feel like they can come from normal hard and rag.
Maybe cav is the place for custom HP for each wave?

3. Nice.

Nice.

[Peleus]

I am really getting tired of reading this every time whenever infantry, extra health or anything related is brought up.
Do you see servers dominated by melee classes? I don't. The amount of times I have seen more melee classes on a server then ranged is close to zero, special events excluded.
Can infantry, in melee, kite on hard or ragnarok servers? Possibly, but again I think the chance is close to zero.
If you really want to see ranged only, go play a FPS.
Knock it off by keep on mentioning it, my patience has run dry.

I can tell you from my own experience why I don't play infantry all time. It's too easy. That's all.

I have infantry and pikeman heroes. And I don't understand why it's called balance when as pike I afraid to die from any spit into my side, and as inf I can face tank everything, spam heal and run ahead. It's too easy and boring for me to play this way. I don't know why you think it's balanced.

Question is not even about balancing melee and ranged classes, I can live with melee classes have more hp. Problem you declared infntry as only melee classes above all others and it's unfair to Pike Heroes, Pavise Champions, Aventuriers and even to some extent to non-Warden archers (I would really not against them having 50% more HP, it will not change anything in scale how they suck anyway).

Did not have that experience with my hoplite(not using shield).

Would be more fair if Hoplite has some extra HP too.

If it can't removed, it should be distributed more fair/evenly amonst the classes. Classes with more ranged abilities should get less extra HP and such. Not as now when infantry heroes are superhumans above everyone else.

Naa hoplite is fine cos it has the dmg with some range. 
Inf isnt superhuman at all. If they get hit once by einherjar ranger on the head they are at 1%hp