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+---- Thread: selling ni stuff for real money (/showthread.php?tid=58763)
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Malong - 19-01-2017
(19-01-2017, 08:21 PM)Beeflips Wrote:(19-01-2017, 07:53 PM)Malong Wrote:(19-01-2017, 07:23 PM)Beeflips Wrote:(19-01-2017, 07:14 PM)[ASSASSINE] Wrote: I must say this confuses me ...thats like saying it very hard to find a crime, its not worth the effort. Its like not paying taxes ad hiding them. Yes the country its hidden in must help, but just saying its allowed is not the right way to me
I agree with this completely, plus a lot of what keeps this community alive is the grind to find new gear. If people can just pay to bypass that, whats left for them?
To enjoy the game with the best stuff?
Not everyone in the community found the grind mixed with pure dumb luck being what was keeping it alive.
I'd argue that type of player is in the minority. If you strip away the gear and just look at NI from a game play perspective, the replay value is a bit lacking.
We'll never know what portion of the community this comprises. As a certainty, part of the slow exodus of players over the past three or so years is due to the unrewarding grind (see old threads and feature requests). If someone on the opposite side of the argument bases any such figure on the remainder of the community, it ignores all the players that had previously quit, many of whom left for the exact reason of the unrewarding.
Also, old NI player were selling their items since shortly after the start of the game and never got caught even five years later.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Looter - 19-01-2017
These people's work are not worth protecting
Because it is difficult![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
SpoilerBecause it is time consuming
Because it is hard
Why make an effort, when obstacles are in the way, when instead it is easier to give up, and openly say "just sell or buy these people's works, we don't care anymore, just don't post on the forums." Sticking your heads in the sand because an effort is too difficult.
Of the above people, whatever hardships faced and hours whittled away. To Nord Invasion, none of this worth an effort to try to cherish and protect. Because to do what's right is hard. Many of these contributors are not here to defend themselves and their work, and it was left in good faith for NI to do so. But it's been decided to treat their contributions as time consuming, as difficult, as not worthwhile.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - MatthewO - 20-01-2017
You don't really understand Looter. It's not just hard, it's almost impossible to punish all the people that sell their gold and stuff. After some hard work (hours), you could find nost of them and just ban them, but there are people that just grt a gifts or login to friend's account because he allowed them to use his gold. You can never be 100% sure and that's why it's such an unrewarding and unworthy job... you could easily ban someone who gave this mod hundreds of hours of their life.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Winter - 20-01-2017
(19-01-2017, 10:47 PM)Looter Wrote:These people's work are not worth protectingBecause it is difficult
Because it is time consuming
Because it is hard
Why make an effort, when obstacles are in the way, when instead it is easier to give up, and openly say "just sell or buy these people's works, we don't care anymore, just don't post on the forums." Sticking your heads in the sand because an effort is too difficult.
Of the above people, whatever hardships faced and hours whittled away. To Nord Invasion, none of this worth an effort to try to cherish and protect. Because to do what's right is hard. Many of these contributors are not here to defend themselves and their work, and it was left in good faith for NI to do so. But it's been decided to treat their contributions as time consuming, as difficult, as not worthwhile.
Mmm... Their models aren't being sold though. They are from OSPs that everyone is free to use :I Virtue signalling at its finest?
In response to others, the rules against advertising it is more based in MMOs having gold spammers in chat, forums, and more. We don't want that here. Matthew is fairly on point in stating it is nearly impossible to prove this has happened without one person betraying the other.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Kip - 20-01-2017
I am entirely against people trading items for money. That said, finding the evidence to enforce this rule consistently is incredibly difficult and many people have successfully evaded it.
It is our hope that very few people will stoop to such trading practices and that it will have little impact on the economy. Those that do trade this way might also find themselves shunned by a large part of the community.
Side note: This is not about people stealing the work of our contributors (which we in no way condone) since this has nothing to do with models, maps, or any other of their creations being used outside the mod. This is more about disrespecting the effort players have put into the game (which we also in no way condone).
If things do get out of hand, it is possible the rule will be reintroduced. For now, we are keeping this at a full ban on making such offers on our servers which of course includes the forums.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Billy M8 - 20-01-2017
I just wanted to weigh in as a new player here and be one of the few to not have much gear or gold and say that to some the grind really is something that is seen as a chore rather than a reward, i set out to play with 2 other friends and i am the only real active player bar one who plays occasionally, so there is that temptation to say screw it and look to buy gear to catch up on years missed BUT in my opinion NI is all about the grind, i mean in all honesty the game itself gets quite dull and boring pretty quick, there's some excitement when you finish a map but other than that it's mindless killing of ai for hours on end, and i dare say a very small portion of the player base, if any simply stick around to kill nords, this in my opinion is a gear based game, levels play a part but progression is judged more so on gear than anything and as i said before that grind is tough, but it's that reward that makes it worthwhile, the satisfaction of finally getting that new bow, sword or shield after working hard to get it, that's a nice feeling to know you achieved that, for me it's the reason i stuck about but as i said before, from a new players perspective the grind sucks, they just want to be on the same level as everyone else, sure you can pick up dragons breath in-game, use it for the 15 or so waves you have for that map but to own it, that's what players really want. The biggest issue arises when trying to catch people who do buy/sell gear, at the end of the day whether the team at NI have no problem and allow it or the make a complete ban, it's going to happen, it's no different to drugs and gun laws, if someone wants something and they're willing to pay the price then they are going to pay that price, for the admins and devs to try and ban people for this offence it's an incredibly hard task because as others have stated, there are way too many variables and excuses to be made that have no way of being proven, the only solid evidence that could be attained would be transaction records, which to get one of the parties involved in the trade would have to willingly give that info and risk getting banned themselves, so in reality there's practically no way you could "convict" someone of IRL trades, i've played games with similar problems, people IRL trading and the people who hunt them down get no where, it may sound lazy of the devs and admins to say "it's not worth it" but honestly it is, for those of us on the grind with no intention of IRL trading it does suck, and it's splits the community in two and makes for, in the end, a smaller community again which is a blow NI could do without. At the end of the day the team at NI could do everything in their power and still these trades would occur, the only thing we really can do is simply play the game, grind the gear or gold and have the satisfaction of actually getting somewhere with your effort.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Looter - 20-01-2017
(20-01-2017, 06:45 AM)Dominik Wrote: Okay so is it okay to real money trade now? Or is it still not allowed but only frowned upon(no ban). If its 100% okay PM me what you got and how much you want for it
This is why I say to at least try, and add the rule back.
Also I want to ask, if trading real money is not being condoned, why are you unbanning without punishment players who were found to have done so? That is setting an example towards trading real money being OK, instead of it being not so.
And yes Winter, OSPs are indeed free to use, free to use, not free to sell. While the models themselves are not being sold, as anouther post has stated regarding donator torches, to have them even as in game items sold or given for a monetary transaction is not ok, the principle is the same here.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - [ASSASSINE] - 20-01-2017
(20-01-2017, 06:15 AM)Kip Wrote: I am entirely against people trading items for money. That said, finding the evidence to enforce this rule consistently is incredibly difficult and many people have successfully evaded it.
It is our hope that very few people will stoop to such trading practices and that it will have little impact on the economy. Those that do trade this way might also find themselves shunned by a large part of the community.
Yes they will find a way, but at least its forbidden. Thats like saying we cant hunt down drug dealers, so might aswell allow it. This mod has always been play to win and not pay to win. I fear if this changes, the community splits and dies. I cant really imagine, why not let the rule stay as is was before. IF someone has clear evidence, then you can still ban people.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Kip - 20-01-2017
Like I said, if this does not work and things start getting out of hand, the rule will be added back.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - [ASSASSINE] - 20-01-2017
(20-01-2017, 07:04 AM)Kip Wrote: Like I said, if this does not work and things start getting out of hand, the rule will be added back.
Alright, but i still dont get, why you dont leave the rule as it was before. Is anyone getting hurt from it? Even if you dont hunt alot of people down with it, you can still make use of it, if someone provides evidence.