+- NordInvasion Forum (https://forum.nordinvasion.com)
+-- Forum: Discussions (https://forum.nordinvasion.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=7)
+--- Forum: Community Projects (https://forum.nordinvasion.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=19)
+---- Forum: Feature Requests (https://forum.nordinvasion.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=77)
+---- Thread: selling ni stuff for real money (/showthread.php?tid=58763)
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Bobo - 20-01-2017
@Billy M8: I like that attitude, despite a short time in game you noticed it right: the progression in skill and gear is very important part of NI and veteran players often say that they lose motivation because they got everything they could and see no goals to go for.
That said: you're even more right that if one will buy gear for gold then he will spoil the game for himself, stripping himself from the joy that comes from achievements earned by hard work.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Malong - 20-01-2017
(20-01-2017, 06:52 AM)[ASSASSINE] Wrote: Yes they will find a way, but at least its forbidden. Thats like saying we cant hunt down drug dealers, so might aswell allow it. This mod has always been play to win and not pay to win. I fear if this changes, the community splits and dies. I cant really imagine, why not let the rule stay as is was before. IF someone has clear evidence, then you can still ban people.
To be fully clear, pay-to-win means you're paying the creators of the game. It is only for the specific case of creating a revenue stream from players that want a significant advantage from a system within the game itself, e.g. through a cash shop. Paying to transfer items from another member of the community is distinctly different and not the actual definition of "pay-to-win."
(20-01-2017, 05:02 PM)Bobo Wrote: That said: you're even more right that if one will buy gear for gold then he will spoil the game for himself, stripping himself from the joy that comes from achievements earned by hard work.
That's one way to look at it. The other is that it's trivial to say players want progression, but aren't guaranteed it because the game works from a standpoint of consistent play mixed with pure dumb luck. Both views can co-exist, and there is no demonstrable and quantifiable link that being able to acquire items from others for outside currency has any harm for players that want it to be from "hard work" (though the existence of the phrase "undeserved loot" seems counter to the argument of "hard work").
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Bobo - 20-01-2017
(20-01-2017, 06:28 PM)Malong Wrote: (...)You've got the point, the loot system is not perfect as we all know, though after countless debates no alternative's been found good enough so far. Let's hope some ideas emerge in the future to at least decrease the "dumb luck" influence and favour the "hard work". Ofc it is not guaranteed to achieve something one might desire just through hours of playing, if the luck doesn't come to aid. Still, whatever one gets from either "hard work" or "dumb luck" is much more a source of satisfaction than a purchase might be. Or maybe just for me.
(20-01-2017, 05:02 PM)Bobo Wrote: That said: you're even more right that if one will buy gear for gold then he will spoil the game for himself, stripping himself from the joy that comes from achievements earned by hard work.That's one way to look at it. The other is that it's trivial to say players want progression, but aren't guaranteed it because the game works from a standpoint of consistent play mixed with pure dumb luck. Both views can co-exist, and there is no demonstrable and quantifiable link that being able to acquire items from others for outside currency has any harm for players that want it to be from "hard work" (though the existence of the phrase "undeserved loot" seems counter to the argument of "hard work").
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Disco - 20-01-2017
(20-01-2017, 08:12 PM)Bobo Wrote: Let's hope some ideas emerge in the future to at least decrease the "dumb luck" influence and favour the "hard work".Yes, lets hope so...
http://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=16732&highlight=NKP
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Malong - 21-01-2017
(20-01-2017, 05:02 PM)Bobo Wrote: You've got the point, the loot system is not perfect as we all know, though after countless debates no alternative's been found good enough so far. Let's hope some ideas emerge in the future to at least decrease the "dumb luck" influence and favour the "hard work". Ofc it is not guaranteed to achieve something one might desire just through hours of playing, if the luck doesn't come to aid. Still, whatever one gets from either "hard work" or "dumb luck" is much more a source of satisfaction than a purchase might be. Or maybe just for me.
I'm sure many people feel the same way that "hard work" is more satisfaction than a purchase, but it doesn't diminish the validity of the other viewpoint. To reiterate: unless one can demonstrate that buying items from other players for outside currency causes any harm for players that choose not to do so, why can't the two populations coexist?
To add, the loot system is completely agnostic of "hard work." The level of effort is not a factor whatsoever in loot chance. Only being alive for the bot's death and not having triggered the inactivity timer determine your eligibility for a chance at receiving the drop. There isn't necessarily any correlation between a drop and that player's "hard work." It follows then, that their "satisfaction" is based purely on the end result of having received a drop. And if the effort in the journey to receiving that drop doesn't matter, how is this situation any different from a player buying an item for outside currency?
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Bobo - 21-01-2017
Sure they can coexist. My remark was just to point out it's so much more fun and satisfaction to get the gear from in-game mechanics (even if in some degree luck based) than to buy it. On the other hand if one buys himself an item, that's his choice, no matter if he knows what he loses this way. It doesn't refer to the rule itself and ofc cannot be a point the rule is base on.
To the topic though, I'd share Assassine's viewpoint: the fact that it is difficult (or impossible) to catch the one who breaks the rule is not a reason for the rule to be eliminated. Something's ok or not, so the rules allows it or not. Just that simple.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - LordChaos - 21-01-2017
What if the devs currently removed it to trace the current trades to re-enable it and screw them up..?
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Bobo - 21-01-2017
Nah, it is not a trap, if the rule is no more then deals are allowed, so none gets punished for. In addition Devs can't trace the real money, so only thing they might find are trades that are empty on one side. But that means nothing since the gear gets lent as well...
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - Skan - 22-01-2017
I personally see no problem with selling or buying gold. I have done it before and would do it again.
There are people who simply do not have the time to play 5-6 hours a day which you'd have to do to grind proper gear if you're not lucky enough, to loot a legendary. Why not let them buy gold and get the gear they want so they can enjoy the game the way they like to. It will hardly bother you - person grinding -.
I've been playing NI since 2012 and never looted an legendary item. I got my gear worth millions of gold through playing and good trading.
If I was to start picking up Nordinvasion today, I'd probably play for a week and then drop it because now I do not like grinding for games anymore nor do I have the time for it.
To kip: encouraging people to exclude players from events or in general is shameful and you as an old player and now dev should really not say something like that. Not mature at all.
RE: selling ni stuff for real money - LordChaos - 22-01-2017
(22-01-2017, 10:19 PM)Skan Wrote: I personally see no problem with selling or buying gold. I have done it before and would do it again.
There are people who simply do not have the time to play 5-6 hours a day which you'd have to do to grind proper gear if you're not lucky enough, to loot a legendary. Why not let them buy gold and get the gear they want so they can enjoy the game the way they like to. It will hardly bother you - person grinding -.
I've been playing NI since 2012 and never looted an legendary item. I got my gear worth millions of gold through playing and good trading.
If I was to start picking up Nordinvasion today, I'd probably play for a week and then drop it because now I do not like grinding for games anymore nor do I have the time for it.
To kip: encouraging people to exclude players from events or in general is shameful and you as an old player and now dev should really not say something like that. Not mature at all.
I like you Skaan but I don't approve your point of view (sorry). Even if this work is a mod compiled by a group of people, the items themselves were made by some others which took the time and effort to do them, they should be the ones rewarded with talesworld. The only thing that this mod provides you is a compilation of all these items with some """"extra"""" scripting (not saying that it isn't a great work or judging the size of the work as I think it is a huge work, and it is probably way bigger than the other people's work as it is ongoing for several years).
How is it fair that someone would be paid with real money because he simply got lucky or just played enough to save etc..? It doesn't make sense, you want to earn money through the game? Well maybe start streaming it and get donations or something if people subscribe, I don't know, that would be different I guess as you would be doing an actual profession. Earning money for virtual items is for the game creators, if they wished to implement it, then maybe NordInvasion would be a pay to win game but this is not the case as no M&B had these features. Here Taleworlds has the last word about that matter, it isn't even up to any admin or dev.
The donations are made to help to keep up the servers as they ask ressources (physical ones, not virtual). You could help up keeping the servers alive or upgrade the server by donating to them, which would probably allow you to loot in the extra amount of time that is given to the servers to "live" on. And that matter is something different.
Edit:
PS: *DING DING* SHAME https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJsOK9Tc60M !!!!! NSFW !!!!!!!!!