Ding Dong, NI Is Dead

[BaconPancakes]

Hey, I'm sure a lot of you know me as I've left and came back to this mod probably 50 times over the past few years, but I think it has finally died because of a couple of reasons:

1. No new content... ever
  This mod is EXACTLY the same as when I first started playing, not a single thing has been added to the mod. The first time you beat the 20 waves is the same as the next 1000 times you beat it. Of course I know you'll want to say "well then let's see you come up with some good content then, bp", which is a stupid answer, but made me think. I honestly cannot think of anything good you could possibly add to this mod, and the fact that nobody else has either in several years shows that this mod was doomed to fail from the very beginning. The mod is fundamentally flawed in that it's stuck with the same basic content and will never evolve beyond that. The game will always be the same low-skill grind. You might also say "but what about all the cool new items and maps, bp". Items and maps may seem like new content, but ultimately do nothing, and I'll say why in my next points.

2. No fun allowed
  You're discouraged from doing anything that deviates from the normal way of play. Everyone gets mad or even reports you if you're not playing as efficiently and as boring as you can. If you place your cades in the "wrong" spot, reported, if you're wearing the "wrong" armor, reported, if you use the tomes at the "wrong" times, reported. I remember I was kicked from a server once because I was doing creative things with my own wall cades just to mix it up and have fun. If you run around naked or with low tier armor, people will unironically get mad at you because they think you're messing up the run.
  The times I've had the most fun in this mod is when everyone is dicking around and not just playing the same way the game is always played. I actually sometimes enjoy when some memer comes into the run and messes things up because I think it's pretty funny, and I'm not going to be the guy who flips and reports someone over it. Even when maps are changed or added, it doesn't make the game more fun because people will choose a spot and cade there every time. The maps are just a change in scenery, but the game is played the same way and there's never any options on how to play.

3. Trading is such a hassle
  It is so hard to get the items you want because people only trade with the goal of getting the items they want. When you make an offer to someone from your big pile of shitty legendaries, they don't want to sell their item because they are looking for specific items. It becomes even more tragic when only a couple of other people own that item and none of them want your stuff, and you have to sit there for hours reshuffling your items through trades to try and come up with a good offer (and likely lose money in the process). A couple of months ago I looted a very valuable legendary, but today I still find myself using mostly the same stuff, and tons of random junk I don't use, because I can't be fucked with messing around with all these trades trying to get the items I want.

4. Legendaries are all that matter
  When you get past the early game, the only way you can increase your wealth in a significant way is to loot a legendary. Once you gather a certain amount of wealth, the only real reason you still do runs is for the chance at a legendary. The fact that getting a legendary is so insanely random makes it so that you may turn up empty handed even after several years, and your gains in wealth will have been minuscule for all the time you put in compared to someone more lucky. Many will say "You get 100k per rag run so just do lots of rag runs LOL". The thing is, I haven't seen a single successful public rag run in months (maybe there's more in EU servers or something), and if you join a house they only do them a few times a week, and I honestly don't care enough to get on a specific times of the day to join events anymore.
  Crafted items have become nothing more that mini-legendaries. None of them are crafted anymore because they're ALL unprofitable to make, and gathering mats is tedious that only a small amount of players actually do. So, only a finite amount of crafted items are in the game and you can't make your own, which makes mats essentially worthless.

5. The super-rich control the market
  The end game in the mod is awful. Even when you're able to afford the highest tier equipment, you can never actually obtain them. One of the problems is the REALLY rich people that have hundreds of millions of gold. They own nearly all the desirable legendaries and trade to make a profit. When a new legendary is dropped for the first time, they are able to buy it for an insanely high amount that nobody can compete with. If you wanted that legendary then you are forced to wait months for another to drop (which will just be bought by the super-rich), because they are not going to sell it unless you pay twice what it should actually be worth. Adding new legendaries to the game is pointless because only a small amount of people will ever get to use them.

6. No purpose
  Once you get to the max level on your char, there is little reason to keep playing. Sure you can keep playing to get all the ebin legendaries, but really it hardly makes that much of a difference, and honestly most people, including me, just want them for that high fashion and bragging rights. I've joked plenty of times saying that all that matters in this game is "trick shots, sick spins, and fashion", but I've realized how true it is. Whether I have a war bow or a 100m bow that shoots laser beams will probably not change the course of the run or even keep me from getting the most kills. You just obtain legendaries so you can obtain more legendaries slightly faster. Why should I play for hundreds of hours just to get that +2 armor bonus from the next armor upgrade.

I was hoping to really play the mod again if it got remade in Bannerlord, but I don't think it'll change even then. If you see me in-game make sure to call me a faggot for still playing the game after making this really long shitpost.

[DR.]

"No new content... ever/No fun allowed" What it sounds like you want this game to be different in a major way. Think that your problem not the mods. This game is a tower defence that a very slow grind i would think just me saying that you should be able to see if you like this mod.

"Trading is such a hassle" Ye this is the one thing i will agree on but can't be helped much.

"Legendaries are all that matter" All you need in this mod is some armor and ok weapons and hero. Can pick up weapons and get the same amount of kills as someone with top tri gear.

"The super-rich control the market" That how any game is if someone is 'rich' what he offed goes back into the market if you think about that.

[Freddie]

There is so much work that has gone in this mod, not many M&B mods go to this level.
I don't understand the level thing, nearly every game is like that, e.g CoD and Battlefield.
COD and Battlefield players still do the same thing as us, grind to get increased damage by a small amount or a better looking skin.
Do you really want a game when legendaries just drop out the sky, do you really want a really easy game?
A lot of the very rich people have played this game for many years, with hard work and luck they got to where they are now, a lot of the rich people don't use the auction hall much, so that leaves less "rich players" to grab a hold in the market.
I'm pretty sure 80% of houses have a house bank, so you can use good gear, e.g VM and there aliadrodd, you see a few different members using it.
Yes the runs may be similar, but still like every other game like cod you cap the flag.. Etc
When I first got M&B the servers were full on Native and NW, I've noticed that it is losing numbers quick, I think it's because the "new generation " don't like these type of games, so it ain't just Nord...
Before I looted my first and only legendary(thanos) I had a networth of 10m just from playing, so you don't need legendaries, yes they do boost but not necessarily to be rich
A lot of the community are quite friendly but there is always some, I've been playing world of tanks for example, on that you get sh*t on nearly every game
I hope I make sense,
Cheers
Bubbles

[Eyleen]

Just here to bump one of my threads, not actively playing anymore for now, but this actually seems worth responding to.


In my opinion, the mod being fun greatly depends on your playstyle. I am one of those players you will usually find somewhere outside of the barricaded spot, further away from the maingroup, tryharding to get as many kills as possible. Its a lot more fun for me to play like that, compared to something like the seriously boring roles of e.g. shielding/slashing behind shielder. Basicly anything where I dont have to constantly fear being gruesomely murdered by a bunch of nords with rabies seems boring. I would much rather just quit the mod entirely before starting to play like some of those people who spend most of their ingame time afk or imitating a clickbot. Its also the reason why I really love cavalry mode despite its plethora of flaws, simply because you have to be constantly on edge trying to survive, while also dealing some damage.

Kiting also goes towards that category of fun ways to play NI, but sadly it seems to be absolutely resented by the dev team, for whatever reason. With all those anti-kiting measures it becomes more and more impossible and discouraging especially to new players. You know, like making the spawns much larger than they should be for playercounts less than 5, decreasing the xp/gold gained all the way down to 50%, making certain bots way too fast (curse those loki spawns), etc. As far as I have seen, that greatly contributes to lowering the playercount in this mod. Kiting used to be an amazingly effective way to get some public runs started. Anyone who has kited for a while knows how it works, just when youre about to reach that next respawn point you suddenly have a whole bunch of players invading your server. Sometimes it goes horribly from there, sometimes it develops into a nice run. When searching for servers youre often confronted with the problem of a very limited choice. Usually there is that one hard or rag server at 16/16, and another normal run thats either full as well, or somewhere at 10/16. Joining that normal server is more or less a waste of time, unless you are playing a low level character or want to help out a bit. And trying to spamjoin that full run is incredibly tedious and at least equally much of a time waste. At that point I have only two choices left, quit playing or start kiting, but very few actually still opt for the kiting choice, for reasons mentioned earlier.

And on the importance of gear, as far as I am concerned, besides your support item it absolutely does not matter how much you own, you can pretty much always find someone to leech some weapons off. Just buy something cheap like a SHC and then start saving up for hero class and eventually a useful weapon of your own. Especially with pikeman it can be really fun, because you get to use all sorts of throwing weapons throughout your runs. Armor does not really matter if you play it smart, anything with more than 30 body protection is enough to save you from dying after one hit. Having all those expensive legendaries is indeed more of a style issue. Just spend a few hours in native every now and then to git gud.

[DR.]

Normal and even Cav,Hard can be soloed just the maps are what makes it hard.

With the mod being the same etc. I forgot to add 12 heros till you make all (all have something the others don't) Can't see how you can get bored unless you don't like the game play at that point why are you here ?

[Master]

+ 1 to what woody said on no new content, trading, and the super-rich. Trading is cancer because everyone wants to 'make profit' with every trade.

Legendaries are all that matter. Sure you can leech items off of other people, but what's the point of using higher end weapons other than to try and BUY said legendaries?

The end-game for NI is rather pointless. I just spent around 40m for a Ullr's Bane. I feel like I kill just as much as I did before. Hell, the most fun I had on this mod was with the Fiendish bow - not the best, but did the job. The end tier equipment seems pointless. Why grind for months to buy a +2 dmg than what you already have?

There is no motivation to finish runs - no actual goal on NI other than to grind and buy items that make the game feel even easier, and more pointless.

I like NI. Been playing for awhile now. But the game loses its luster, especially when you hit end tier.

~M

[Looter]

I'm just waiting for bannerlord at this stage, I only hop on for a few runs a 2-3 days a week. Overplaying this game leads to boredom, so I mix it with other games or M&B mods. So pretty much like elyeen said, the mod can be ok to play depending on Play style, but in general repetively playing constantly is dull so don't do that. When I join for runs I usually fuck around with whomever I am playing with at the time or doing some random M&B Rp like pretending to be king ******* and having people follow me around where I run to my death or get headshotted 5 seconds within bots spawning. That kind of stuff is what makes the game fun for me.

[Stillicho]

+ 1 to what woody said on no new content, trading, and the super-rich. Trading is cancer because everyone wants to 'make profit' with every trade.

Legendaries are all that matter. Sure you can leech items off of other people, but what's the point of using higher end weapons other than to try and BUY said legendaries?

The end-game for NI is rather pointless. I just spent around 40m for a Ullr's Bane. I feel like I kill just as much as I did before. Hell, the most fun I had on this mod was with the Fiendish bow - not the best, but did the job. The end tier equipment seems pointless. Why grind for months to buy a +2 dmg than what you already have?

There is no motivation to finish runs - no actual goal on NI other than to grind and buy items that make the game feel even easier, and more pointless.

I like NI. Been playing for awhile now. But the game loses its luster, especially when you hit end tier.

~M

++1 to What woody said and master, they both had it spot on. I spent the past few months not playing and first time back on forums, but I spent plenty of time in the game to say that clearly you don't.
Even though I looted plenty of gear, I ground out over 10m in gold and did incessant Rag runs, and those were good times well spent. Also, legendaries are not needed neither is half the gear in the game. If you would've said this as well as saying that you actually still had interest in the game I would tell you tell you to man up, stop whining, put in some legit time and grind it out. No one likes a whiner.

[BaconPancakes]

Sure you can keep playing to get all the ebin legendaries, but really it hardly makes that much of a difference, and honestly most people, including me, just want them for that high fashion and bragging rights. I've joked plenty of times saying that all that matters in this game is "trick shots, sick spins, and fashion", but I've realized how true it is. Whether I have a war bow or a 100m bow that shoots laser beams will probably not change the course of the run or even keep me from getting the most kills. You just obtain legendaries so you can obtain more legendaries slightly faster.

I think a lot of you didn't see this part when making your replies, and the point that legendaries are all that matter but don't actually matter was a flaw I was pointing out in the game.

"No new content... ever/No fun allowed" What it sounds like you want this game to be different in a major way. Think that your problem not the mods. This game is a tower defence that a very slow grind i would think just me saying that you should be able to see if you like this mod.

The game can stick to its tower defense roots while still being interesting. There should be an unpredictable and varied experience and trying to create that shouldn't be discouraged.

In my opinion, the mod being fun greatly depends on your playstyle. I am one of those players you will usually find somewhere outside of the barricaded spot, further away from the maingroup, tryharding to get as many kills as possible. Its a lot more fun for me to play like that... Kiting also goes towards that category of fun ways to play NI, but sadly it seems to be absolutely resented by the dev team, for whatever reason.

When I join for runs I usually fuck around with whomever I am playing with at the time or doing some random M&B Rp like pretending to be king ******* and having people follow me around where I run to my death or get headshotted 5 seconds within bots spawning. That kind of stuff is what makes the game fun for me.

This is what I was saying, where the funnest ways to play the game come from not playing the game how it was meant to be played. It would be a lot more interesting if there were more choices than cading, and removing kiting was a step in the wrong direction.

[Rowan]

I do not see any point in this thread as this seems to be more of a complaint/argument when both sides can be argued for without a doubt. This thread should instead be used for developing ideas that the mod can do but complaining how the mod is dead won't make a single difference.

I agree with some of the points said about trading but that is maybe what some people do enjoy doing in the mod. As Looter said, create your own fun (I really love Looter's role play) and don't grind out hardcore until the sun rises as it will drive you off the mod.

Master saying purchasing the Ullrs Bane maybe wasn't worth it (excuse if I have misread what you have said) but for me, I look to create a dream loadout for all my characters and part of the fun for me is working my way up to the weapons and armour in that dream loadout. It makes the game more interesting.

My final thing I would like to say is I really enjoy hopping onto the servers with 2-3 people who are low levels and helping them out. I had a player come onto the NI teamspeak and ask how to play the game. I helped him out and now he is already level 32, I enjoy teaching him the mechanics of the game.