Cavalry melee weapons choice

[Falankos]

I found stabbing with a 2 handed can be quite effective, even on later waves. You gotta get used to the animation at first but if you time it correctly it deals massive damage. Obviously there still is the disadvantage of having no shield but who needs one if you have a courser that's faster than their arrows and spears.

[Terath]

It's better than the house crafted swords because it costs more to make it. House crafting is just another means of crafting something; doesn't mean all house crafted has to be better than normal crafting.

Please do the math. They were always about the same costly to make. The cost of materials were changing over time but differences were small.

Well deserved buff IMO.

Of course, of course... because every buff made by the dev team is buff well deserved, am I right?
Whatever, nothing can surprise me here any more.

Okay then, let's be rude.

The prices may have changed over time, and they may be worth the same now, but before they weren't. Developers can't always keep track of every single item and their crafting cost all of the time, so you should be able to understand why it might be lower/higher than the other swords. Just because you can't remember how much more expensive lumps were doesn't mean that they've "always been the same cost to make". The SH is made out of so much lead it might as well be a sharp cannonball.

And yeah, I'd wager that every buff made by the dev team IS well deserved. Most, if not all of the time, items that have stats changed deserve it - devs don't change the stats of items just for the hell of it, and most of the changes are thrown around to most of the devs for a yes/no on the change. The Swadian Hope didn't used to be worth its price range; now it is. Complain all you want, it's how it is. No point in being butthurt about it.

It's still a well deserved buff, because the sword was way worse than the other swords before the buff, and the same amount better after the buff (50c -> 54c).

In my eyes, the current stats are fine. Don't complain because something you have is worse than something else.

Edit: Oh, and I did the math. Swadian Hope is currently 1.725 million and the Hero's Hope is 1.450 million. Difference of 275k~300k - quite a lot.

[Ribbed]

The buff is at least a year old if not more. Always thought it was pretty dumb how it's equally as good as the 1h legion locked sword, but I stopped caring a long time ago.  

Also best cav melee weapon is illustrious

[Niezdara]

Edit: Oh, and I did the math. Swadian Hope is currently 1.725 million and the Hero's Hope is 1.450 million. Difference of 275k~300k - quite a lot.

Dang! I was going to leave it but I like to do the math and you intrigued me.

As far as I know the Swadian Hope is 200 hardened metal, 25 lumps, 25 Heavy cloth, 25 sturdy wood. Lets assume that lumps are 40 K and HM is 5K. That would give us 2 mil.

All those house crafted commando swords have the same components- 3 damascus, 12 sulphur, 105 HM, 144 Shade ore, 60 coal, 360 Heavy cloth, 960 rough cloth, 36 chain links, 60 construction tools. Damascus now is worth about the same when he appeared and 1 damascus is equal like 4 lumps. Sulphur has similar price to lump, so 25 lumps is pretty worth the same as 3 damascus and 12 sulphur. Shade ore and coal are worth only little less than HM and 105 HM, 144 ore and 60 coal is worth more then 200 HM.
At this point prices of both become equal and we just have to add that....360 HC, 960 rough cloth, 36 chain links, 60 construction tools to cost of those house craftables. Its like 275k~300k more - quite a lot...

So how did you do your math? Please correct mine.

Anyway it doesn't matter since you explained that items gets buff according to prices that were current long ago ("you can't remember how much more expensive lumps were"). Its quite surprising. I thought that buff is given to items that are too weak compared to current cost. Boy I was so wrong. I can't wait for the bear armor buff - cost of bear fur was insane few years ago.

Oh and about "sword was way worse than the other swords before the buff" please elaborate. I just don't see that. Some one was complaining on a forum?

You generally wasn't rude except that "Don't complain because something you have is worse than something else.". So, you know...don't defend that change solely because you benefit from it

All those buffs are quite dumb (yes, including those which benefit me). People complain that game become too easy. So we get huge buff to many weapons and even easier maps. I can understand legendary items buff since new craftable start getting similar in stats, but craftables?

[Sargent Q]

just a quick point out Niezdara. The hope has been buffed for the past year. As can be seen on this page of the .7 patch notes

http://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread...09&page=23

As for Melee on cav, I use my Ragnar's Wrath. It is so fast.

[Terath]

Edit: Oh, and I did the math. Swadian Hope is currently 1.725 million and the Hero's Hope is 1.450 million. Difference of 275k~300k - quite a lot.

Dang! I was going to leave it but I like to do the math and you intrigued me.

As far as I know the Swadian Hope is 200 hardened metal, 25 lumps, 25 Heavy cloth, 25 sturdy wood. Lets assume that lumps are 40 K and HM is 5K. That would give us 2 mil.

All those house crafted commando swords have the same components- 3 damascus, 12 sulphur, 105 HM, 144 Shade ore, 60 coal, 360 Heavy cloth, 960 rough cloth, 36 chain links, 60 construction tools. Damascus now is worth about the same when he appeared and 1 damascus is equal like 4 lumps. Sulphur has similar price to lump, so 25 lumps is pretty worth the same as 3 damascus and 12 sulphur. Shade ore and coal are worth only little less than HM and 105 HM, 144 ore and 60 coal is worth more then 200 HM.
At this point prices of both become equal and we just have to add that....360 HC, 960 rough cloth, 36 chain links, 60 construction tools to cost of those house craftables. Its like 275k~300k more - quite a lot...

So how did you do your math? Please correct mine.

Anyway it doesn't matter since you explained that items gets buff according to prices that were current long ago ("you can't remember how much more expensive lumps were"). Its quite surprising. I thought that buff is given to items that are too weak compared to current cost. Boy I was so wrong. I can't wait for the bear armor buff - cost of bear fur was insane few years ago.

Oh and about "sword was way worse than the other swords before the buff" please elaborate. I just don't see that. Some one was complaining on a forum?

You generally wasn't rude except that "Don't complain because something you have is worse than something else.". So, you know...don't defend that change solely because you benefit from it

Well, it all depends on how you value things. I used the middle of the road price for materials on the auction hall, and I didn't include anything over 5k - I'm at school and I'm in a rush, so I didn't spend much time on it. We're both just going to end up getting totally different prices for both swords, and I probably left something important out somewhere, but the Swadian Hope used to be worth much more than any of the house crafted swords, and that's the point I was trying to make (even though I posted my version of the new prices for the weapons). If it comes down to it, your math is probably more correct than mine, which is fine by me - but the price years ago made the sword not worth it when the house crafted items rolled along.

Some items don't get edited stats based on their price, they get edited stats based on their higher and lower versions of the weapon. The Swadian Hope was hot shit back in the day, and then the house crafted swords rolled along and were just better than the Swadian Hope in pretty much every way (damage, speed, I guess not length). Even though the Swadian Hope's price determined its 54c in the end, the original stats were because it was a midway 1 hander for commando and nothing else.

And yeah, the sword was worse than the other swords before the Swadian Hope buff. Compare 50c of the Swadian Hope and the 52c of the Hero's Hope, and the Swadian Hope is more expensive. After the buff, Swadian Hope is (generally) more expensive and has the stats to back it up - 54c compared to the 52c of the Hero's Hope. On top of that, people complained about it being worse and more expensive; some people didn't want the weapon to fade into obscurity like the Apsods because of its bad stats and bad price compared to Hero's Hope. (Alternatively, the 500k Vengeance had 49c compared to Swadian Hope's 50c. 1m ~ 1.5m more for 1 cut and length. Worth it?).

I'm not defending the change solely because I benefit from it, I'm defending it because it's what I believe is right. The buff was well deserved in my opinion and not because I own the weapon. I've had both the Hero's Hope and the Swadian Hope. Assuming that I take this stance because I own the weapon and that's it is kind of insulting. I'm sure the same goes for you too, and I was wrong to assume you were defending it because you own it, but I'm defending it because I think it's fine how it is.

[Niezdara]

Well, it all depends on how you value things. I used the middle of the road price for materials on the auction hall, and I didn't include anything over 5k - I'm at school and I'm in a rush, so I didn't spend much time on it. We're both just going to end up getting totally different prices for both swords, and I probably left something important out somewhere, but the Swadian Hope used to be worth much more than any of the house crafted swords, and that's the point I was trying to make (even though I posted my version of the new prices for the weapons). If it comes down to it, your math is probably more correct than mine, which is fine by me - but the price years ago made the sword not worth it when the house crafted items rolled along.

Some items don't get edited stats based on their price, they get edited stats based on their higher and lower versions of the weapon. The Swadian Hope was hot shit back in the day, and then the house crafted swords rolled along and were just better than the Swadian Hope in pretty much every way (damage, speed, I guess not length). Even though the Swadian Hope's price determined its 54c in the end, the original stats were because it was a midway 1 hander for commando and nothing else.

And yeah, the sword was worse than the other swords before the Swadian Hope buff. Compare 50c of the Swadian Hope and the 52c of the Hero's Hope, and the Swadian Hope is more expensive. After the buff, Swadian Hope is (generally) more expensive and has the stats to back it up - 54c compared to the 52c of the Hero's Hope. On top of that, people complained about it being worse and more expensive; some people didn't want the weapon to fade into obscurity like the Apsods because of its bad stats and bad price compared to Hero's Hope. (Alternatively, the 500k Vengeance had 49c compared to Swadian Hope's 50c. 1m ~ 1.5m more for 1 cut and length. Worth it?).

I'm not defending the change solely because I benefit from it, I'm defending it because it's what I believe is right. The buff was well deserved in my opinion and not because I own the weapon. I've had both the Hero's Hope and the Swadian Hope. Assuming that I take this stance because I own the weapon and that's it is kind of insulting. I'm sure the same goes for you too, and I was wrong to assume you were defending it because you own it, but I'm defending it because I think it's fine how it is.

Ok, but I still don't agree. Especially with "The Swadian Hope was hot shit back in the day, and then the house crafted swords rolled along and were just better" - that is just completely not true. They were all on the same level. All of those 3 Hero's and Swadian Hope were just different flavours and I'm pretty sure they were added simply to give bigger choice. You can check it yourself, since guide is not yet updated.

Giving massive 4c bonus is hardly justified. I wouldn't bat an eye for 2c and it would already make it better then any of those 3.

All in all it doesn't matter. The decisions were made and no one have any obligations to explain why.There is really no point for me to argue and my opinions doesn't matter...I just keep forgetting about it sometimes. Sorry for that.

[Ribbed]

Well, it all depends on how you value things. I used the middle of the road price for materials on the auction hall, and I didn't include anything over 5k - I'm at school and I'm in a rush, so I didn't spend much time on it. We're both just going to end up getting totally different prices for both swords, and I probably left something important out somewhere, but the Swadian Hope used to be worth much more than any of the house crafted swords, and that's the point I was trying to make (even though I posted my version of the new prices for the weapons). If it comes down to it, your math is probably more correct than mine, which is fine by me - but the price years ago made the sword not worth it when the house crafted items rolled along.

Some items don't get edited stats based on their price, they get edited stats based on their higher and lower versions of the weapon. The Swadian Hope was hot shit back in the day, and then the house crafted swords rolled along and were just better than the Swadian Hope in pretty much every way (damage, speed, I guess not length). Even though the Swadian Hope's price determined its 54c in the end, the original stats were because it was a midway 1 hander for commando and nothing else.

And yeah, the sword was worse than the other swords before the Swadian Hope buff. Compare 50c of the Swadian Hope and the 52c of the Hero's Hope, and the Swadian Hope is more expensive. After the buff, Swadian Hope is (generally) more expensive and has the stats to back it up - 54c compared to the 52c of the Hero's Hope. On top of that, people complained about it being worse and more expensive; some people didn't want the weapon to fade into obscurity like the Apsods because of its bad stats and bad price compared to Hero's Hope. (Alternatively, the 500k Vengeance had 49c compared to Swadian Hope's 50c. 1m ~ 1.5m more for 1 cut and length. Worth it?).

I'm not defending the change solely because I benefit from it, I'm defending it because it's what I believe is right. The buff was well deserved in my opinion and not because I own the weapon. I've had both the Hero's Hope and the Swadian Hope. Assuming that I take this stance because I own the weapon and that's it is kind of insulting. I'm sure the same goes for you too, and I was wrong to assume you were defending it because you own it, but I'm defending it because I think it's fine how it is.

Ok, but I still don't agree. Especially with "The Swadian Hope was hot shit back in the day, and then the house crafted swords rolled along and were just better" - that is just completely not true. They were all on the same level. All of those 3 Hero's and Swadian Hope were just different flavours and I'm pretty sure they were added simply to give bigger choice. You can check it yourself, since guide is not yet updated.

Yep the house crafted were 50c when added in. Buff never made any sense.

[Terath]

Well, it all depends on how you value things. I used the middle of the road price for materials on the auction hall, and I didn't include anything over 5k - I'm at school and I'm in a rush, so I didn't spend much time on it. We're both just going to end up getting totally different prices for both swords, and I probably left something important out somewhere, but the Swadian Hope used to be worth much more than any of the house crafted swords, and that's the point I was trying to make (even though I posted my version of the new prices for the weapons). If it comes down to it, your math is probably more correct than mine, which is fine by me - but the price years ago made the sword not worth it when the house crafted items rolled along.

Some items don't get edited stats based on their price, they get edited stats based on their higher and lower versions of the weapon. The Swadian Hope was hot shit back in the day, and then the house crafted swords rolled along and were just better than the Swadian Hope in pretty much every way (damage, speed, I guess not length). Even though the Swadian Hope's price determined its 54c in the end, the original stats were because it was a midway 1 hander for commando and nothing else.

And yeah, the sword was worse than the other swords before the Swadian Hope buff. Compare 50c of the Swadian Hope and the 52c of the Hero's Hope, and the Swadian Hope is more expensive. After the buff, Swadian Hope is (generally) more expensive and has the stats to back it up - 54c compared to the 52c of the Hero's Hope. On top of that, people complained about it being worse and more expensive; some people didn't want the weapon to fade into obscurity like the Apsods because of its bad stats and bad price compared to Hero's Hope. (Alternatively, the 500k Vengeance had 49c compared to Swadian Hope's 50c. 1m ~ 1.5m more for 1 cut and length. Worth it?).

I'm not defending the change solely because I benefit from it, I'm defending it because it's what I believe is right. The buff was well deserved in my opinion and not because I own the weapon. I've had both the Hero's Hope and the Swadian Hope. Assuming that I take this stance because I own the weapon and that's it is kind of insulting. I'm sure the same goes for you too, and I was wrong to assume you were defending it because you own it, but I'm defending it because I think it's fine how it is.

Ok, but I still don't agree. Especially with "The Swadian Hope was hot shit back in the day, and then the house crafted swords rolled along and were just better" - that is just completely not true. They were all on the same level. All of those 3 Hero's and Swadian Hope were just different flavours and I'm pretty sure they were added simply to give bigger choice. You can check it yourself, since guide is not yet updated.

Giving massive 4c bonus is hardly justified. I wouldn't bat an eye for 2c and it would already make it better then any of those 3.

All in all it doesn't matter. The decisions were made and no one have any obligations to explain why.There is really no point for me to argue and my opinions doesn't matter...I just keep forgetting about it sometimes. Sorry for that.

It's fine to not agree, but the Hero's set has its own flavors and the Swadian Hope was just worse than all three. Hero's Hope with 52c 100 speed, Hero's Trust with 49 cut 103 speed, and Hero's Despair with 50 cut 101 speed. The old Swadian Hope had 50c and 99 speed, putting it below the Hope because of the damage, the Despair because of the flat increase in speed and the Trust because of the large increase in speed. While the Swadian Hope was comparable, it wasn't better than really any of them (you could argue Trust because of the +1 damage but the 103 speed more than makes up for it).

It's kind of weird to me to not bat an eye at +2c, but for +4c to be massive. Probably just me though.

And I agree, this was a pretty unnecessary argument on my part. Your opinions do matter, though - it's not like nobody is listening and will never listen. As we speak, the devs have already probably read through this whole conversation and weighed their thoughts on what you and I have said. For all you know, they agree with you and will be nerfing the SH. The devs aren't divine superbeings that don't concern themselves with mortals, they're people just like us and they listen to every single one of the player's complaints. Don't think that your opinions don't matter - speak freely! As long as you keep it civil and clean, the devs will listen to anything you have to say.

I'm sorry too

[Niezdara]

Your opinions do matter, though - it's not like nobody is listening and will never listen. As we speak, the devs have already probably read through this whole conversation and weighed their thoughts on what you and I have said. For all you know, they agree with you and will be nerfing the SH. The devs aren't divine superbeings that don't concern themselves with mortals, they're people just like us and they listen to every single one of the player's complaints. Don't think that your opinions don't matter - speak freely! As long as you keep it civil and clean, the devs will listen to anything you have to say.

My experiences are entirely different here, but I no longer trouble myself with it. Some times ago I realized that in this mod, I'm given just three options: to play/not play, to donate/don't donate and to contribute/not contribute. I actually completely agree with that - some people have created that mod and its free to play, so they have all rights to do whatever they want and don't care about anyone opinion. In short "Don't like it? Don't play it". It's fair and the sooner people realize it the better.