POLL - Leeching is still leeching, even if you are not technically "AFK"

[Crossbowman]

Speaking of leeching let us not forget our beloved useless engineers in the mod which is bringing support yet do not build. Like why only a few people on the mod is trying to build?
You are an engineer too, go build. It is not that hard. I do not have to build all the damn cades while you are sitting and eating your popcorn.
You do not require a text that tells you "build".


This one is going to be for general. Use the damn tomes. They are brought to be used in the damn game. If you participate in the game then make some contrubution. Use the damn tomes when it is needed. You mostly do not require a text that tells you "tome". 
I believe you have a brain which can judge the situation and act according to it.


Not building and not using tomes( Even if it is called) count as leeching in my opinion.

I completely agree. If you choose a role, you should fulfill its responsibilities. Playing as an engineer but not building or carrying a tome without using it when needed is unfair to your teammates. The game becomes much smoother and more enjoyable when everyone contributes.

Agreeing with this viewpoint, sometimes people may step forward to deal with the enemy, but there needs to be engineers in the rear to replenish the roadblocks in a timely manner.

[Kriegstofu]

Its mostly people who stall the bots at the front who make the whole run take way longer than it should go. so if majority of players has the discipline to stay back, there will always be some who lack said discipline. So because of some rambo guy, the whole team is waiting for the bots to arrive, while one guy snipes all bots and just stalls the whole run. some maps are better pathed and do not allow this kind of annoying behavior, so of course i'm more afk on these maps if there is this special kind of one man army rambo.
The main point should be to focus bots on cades, not snipers which will eventually arrive later on.

I can do easily 120 kills on offshore rag, yet i won't recieve the rewards for quests like rise from the ashes because i only kill snipers, ballistamen and siege masters.

so yes, i tend to be more afk when there are people who only care for their score and downtalk people having lower kill scores.

[poxix]

Its mostly people who stall the bots at the front who make the whole run take way longer than it should go. so if majority of players has the discipline to stay back, there will always be some who lack said discipline. So because of some rambo guy, the whole team is waiting for the bots to arrive, while one guy snipes all bots and just stalls the whole run. some maps are better pathed and do not allow this kind of annoying behavior, so of course i'm more afk on these maps if there is this special kind of one man army rambo.
The main point should be to focus bots on cades, not snipers which will eventually arrive later on.

I can do easily 120 kills on offshore rag, yet i won't recieve the rewards for quests like rise from the ashes because i only kill snipers, ballistamen and siege masters.

so yes, i tend to be more afk when there are people who only care for their score and downtalk people having lower kill scores.

Pathing is not really the problem with your exemple, or you probably meant layout? because this this a problem of map layout + AI behavior. the ranged AI will try to close the distance to the player it detected first with the help of the AI pathing, when it has reached the optimal distance to the player this AI is coded to shoot, so it will stop to shoot even without line of sight. It will not try to have a clear line of sight to do it because it is no coded for it, only to be at an optimal range of a player irrelevant of the scene props surrounding it.

[Maximus_Decimus]

Hello spirit and anti-nord invaders,

Thank you for the poll; it seems like it is a topic the community is very interested in!

As a returning player (last time I played was in 2012) I had no legendaries, no support equipment and 0 map/game knowledge. I have been told that I was “glitching” for standing on a part of a map that confuses the bots (an obvious player intended platform with stairs to it). So, there is an equipment/legendary, and knowledge gap if a strict kills/contribution standard is enforced and it would single out new/returning/low game knowledge players. I’ll say the community is great though, I was gifted barricades, support equipment and kindly informed by the community about the areas in maps that appear usable but glitch the bots.

Solutions wise, as others suggested that it would be easier to kick individuals sitting in spectator and follow up on players with a few leech complaints/reports/summon admins.

Lastly, as a nerd for polls I feel obligated to point out that you are asking 1) are you okay with this thing that is bad or 2) do you dislike this bad thing and support the game rules. You are implying that leeching by your definition is not allowed in the game rules and asking people if they support or don’t support the game rules in their entirety. In the posted rules, leeching is not defined/mentioned, just that players should make a reasonable effort to support the team and not intently bring lesser equipment.

Food for thought, how you frame the poll will affect the poll results itself!

[DR.]

Its mostly people who stall the bots at the front who make the whole run take way longer than it should go. so if majority of players has the discipline to stay back, there will always be some who lack said discipline.

Lack discipline or lack game knowledge? We need to keep in mind a lot of people don't actually know any better at this point because runs have gotten this easy there is no incentive to grow your understanding in game play

While I think on a personal level ye we can hate bad or unexperienced players I don't think we can blame them at this point

I can do easily 120 kills on offshore rag, yet i won't recieve the rewards for quests like rise from the ashes because i only kill snipers, ballistamen and siege masters.
scores.

Ranged classes in general always have the advantage of getting kills on anything because they can kill anything in sight if you aim is good enough

Any inf class is going to struggle a lot harder getting a siege master kill vs you getting one at the cades

Kills in general aren't a good way to track active good game play hmm shield damage on bots but more importantly us would be an interesting indicator however that only helps an RG and not a Zwei that literally may have more down time in optimal play more then any class

Damage taken on us would be interesting but that incentivizes maybe not the best game play huh

[Gore_Verbinski]

Listing some particular problems won't solve the bigger picture.

[Spirit]

Thank you everybody who has provided their honest, unsolicited, and un-coerced feedback. I am going to shut this down later today. I plan review the feedback at least one more time and then compile my personal conclusions before closing the thread.

[Spirit]

OK... someone said this thread was overkill, but having returned not long ago and mostly playing late nights due to work and family obligations, I noticed from my perspective that this kind of leeching was widespread and commonly accepted.  Before I started doing my job and taking action, I wanted to make sure that others also saw it is an issue.  Yes, there are other issues also at play, but at least this one can be addressed in some fashion.

Things to note:

Players would like a forum to provide ongoing feedback on maps.

Kill/Death counts are not the measure of a persons contributions to the run.

Some people just want to chill and kick back, without putting out too much effort.


What are my conclusions:

As long as a player is contributing to the run in accordance with the difficulty of the run, the situation, and their own abilities then there is no issue.

What do I mean by that...

I understand that every class has their role given the situation, which can lead to some players being more active than others at certain times.  It depends on the map, the barricade spot selected, the composition of the team, that composition of the specific wave, and the game mode, just to name a few factors.

If all you want to do is casually play the game, banter with your friends, tab out to different windows, and basically have a low level of effort expended, then Normal is the place for you.  Your individual contributions are not likely to make or break the run.  The exception of course being that if the run is full and you are AFK for extended periods, then you will get kicked.

(And while we are mentioning AFK, if you are going AFK, then announce it and allow yourself to actually go AFK after the timer expires.  If you are present enough to do something to prevent the timer from ending your gold/exp/loot then you are not really AFK.  Going forward, I will start kicking those I see doing this.)

Next, if you want to play in Hard mode where the rewards are greater, then the expectations of you from your team are also greater.  You are expected to play your role as appropriate for the situation at a reasonable level.  This includes but is not limited to re spawning your gear for others to use if you have some shiny bling, bringing support items appropriate for the mode, being active in each and every wave. Don't bring a normal cade or a simple medic box.. those belong on Normal.  Your support should be at minimum a Heavy cade or a Field Surgeon's kit.  But don't use my words to just bring in the minimum.  If you have better stuff, help your team out and bring it, in every sense of the phrase.

Lastly, for Ragnarok mode.  This is currently the hardest mode and has the greatest reward.  If you play Ragnarok mode, then there is the highest of expectations of you from your team.   Again, play your role as required by the situation to the best of your ability and there is no problem.  There will be no tolerance for selective contribution, not bringing support, frequent periods of inaction when it is not appropriate for your role or the situation.  You can consider this your first warning.  I may or may not provide a 2nd before kicking someone from a run.

Those who know me will know that I have seldom actually kicked or even red-texted players, so I don't take these actions lightly and would prefer if we could all just play the game and have fun while fulfilling the expectations of our team.  If you don't want to meet those expectations, then you don't have to.  You can play in Normal mode where the expectations are at a minimum.   If you make the choice to play the harder modes, then be prepared to put out the effort... consistently.

Last comment.  I know that some have stated that the rules don't say I have to do this, or I have to do that, or I can't do x y z.  There is one rule that should cover all of this that has been in the rules for some time.....

"Do make a reasonable effort to support the team. Do not use low-tier equipment as an excuse to not contribute to the team (especially as a high-tier player)."

Make a reasonable effort to support the team... that is all it takes.

/cheers

Spirit