New Feature Discussion, Ranged Behavior

[Huscarlton Banks]

Feedback thread for new ranged behavior.

The ranged volley script checks for, and forces ranged bots to attack if they are not attacking, have just finished an attack, or have just canceled an attack.

This is intended to:

1) Make peek shooting more challenging
2) Make kiting more challenging
3) Make bots rush the barricades over X time because of depleted ammo

The current numbers for the checks are:

2 seconds per check for Archers and/or Repeatermen

4 seconds per check for Throwers

Opinions are wanted, but please keep it constructive.

[Unknown_Soldier]

I personally love it. But honestly it makes kiting easier. Just hide behind a wall and let them waste all their ammo then your set.

[Kip]

I will withhold my vote till I have played with it a bit more but this is my first impression.  It seems strange to have the nords (particularly axe throwers) throwing from so far across the map when they cannot even.  Maybe this is not directly related to the new script but it seems they should not throw until they are within a certain range.

I'll post again (and cast my vote) when I have played more or if I notice anything else.

[iBlue]

My experience is that they shoot way too fast and expend their ammo without people peeking literally in 120 seconds (AKA, the time it takes to clear the melee wave). While i do understand where you're coming from (No peeking), that's also what a crossbowman is good at and while it's more difficult now it's also a game of chance - Forcing people to risk their neck every time when they can just wait and kill people at the barricades which is more important.

To add ontop of that, burst damage should be prefered over crossbowman's ability to deal fixed amount of damage over a fixed amount of time. While this may not hurt crossbowmen with repeaters as much as arbalests and other crossbows, the whole crossbowman class fell off considerably in ragnarok as well as other game modes when you can just have a bunch of commandoes and wait for the enemy to come to you.

The armor penetration sounds good but enemies are getting more and more HP and less and less armor. The point about crossbowmen is that they do high piercing damage therefore dealing significantly more damage on later wave enemies than an archer and being useful despite slower attack speed. I believe a  slasher will do way more in this situation. The fact that HP is being increased and armor decreased is a welcome change however crossbow base damage should change with it.

I also belive ranged classes will get better as deployable platforms will start to make their appearances but at the moment the whole thing is a bit extreme and leaves you wondering if being a ranged character is worth it.

I LOVE the fact that you dont need to wait and pick them off one by one and the whole ranged patch is awsome as is and i like it, but it either needs a nerf (more time between attacks) or some balance changes need to be made in my opinion.
I feel that people picking or having crossbowmen are going to be punished for if, it stays the same. This is my constructive-ish opinion as a crossbowman so i'd welcome anyone who can explain to me why i should keep playing as one. I know all you commandoes out there are really happy but i believe ranged classes were nerfed too hard by the ranger and thrower changes.

+ I like the fact throwing enemies like royal's on wave 4 hardmode can shoot in an arc if far enough.
Perhaps a shoot-in-an-arc archer that i suggested can now be added to spice things up and add more unique waves - make crossbowmen and archers a support class which focuses on killing particular enemies which have high damage or kill potential. And make more enemies shoot in an arc! Will lead to more heavy barricades and smarter barricading.

Edit: My thoughts are subject to changes as i play more. This is just the first impression that i got

[Handef_Snizel]

It seems that upon spawning, the bots will waste all of thier ammunition, not throwing at players but at walls seperating the bots and players, making kiting far easier. I say remove this new ranged AI!

[YuriTheRed]

Archers need more ammo; atm they usually run out of ammo faster then the throwing bots, making saving last ranger almost impossible.

[FV_SilentKnight]

As ranged stands now I like how axe trowing troops can arc their throw and hit people behind cover, but they go through their ammo usually not hitting anything. This is both a good thing and a bad thing. Its good because it speeds up ranged waves considerably, but its bad because people can just hide until all the bots run out of ammo the charge the barricades. This makes ranged waves why to easy in comparison to what how they used to be. I think ranged should be reverted back to what it use to be, or they're coding is changed to keep moving into range of the players until they get a clear shot.

[Alex]

I think it should be removed, because its not rly inteligent to shoot if they dont see anyone. They are just wasting there ammo, rushing then the shieldwall and then they are dead.

[Huscarlton Banks]

Unfortunately, there is no easy in-between solution where ranged bots move into attack range instead of getting stuck behind corners.

Thrower ammo was already increased to compensate for the automatic attack, but I guess the attack interval may be too low for some maps.

Bot archer ammo was decreased in order to speed up waves like normal 17&19 and most of ragnarok.

I will wait for more posts before making any changes, but from initial poll results I think:

Archer ammo (nord arrows, nord barbed, nord bodkin 20, 20, 30 -> 40, 45, 50)

Archer volley interval time 2 -> 6 seconds

Thrower volley interval time 4 -> 10 seconds

I will announce when changes take place.

[iBlue]

Unfortunately, there is no easy in-between solution where ranged bots move into attack range instead of getting stuck behind corners.

Thrower ammo was already increased to compensate for the automatic attack, but I guess the attack interval may be too low for some maps.

Bot archer ammo was decreased in order to speed up waves like normal 17&19 and most of ragnarok.

I will wait for more posts before making any changes, but from initial poll results I think:

Archer ammo (nord arrows, nord barbed, nord bodkin 20, 20, 30 -> 40, 45, 50)

Archer volley interval time 2 -> 6 seconds

Thrower volley interval time 4 -> 10 seconds

I will announce when changes take place.

Is it possible to change thrower weapon speeds and add more damage to make the nords shoot over the barricades more often? Heavy cades would make a come-back if this was so and would make nord invasion much more interesting on hard and ragnarok while it wouldn't influence normal much other than nerf javeliners if you fought them hand to hand.

It seems like something a besieging army would do if they had no other solutions to use their throwables.
It will also help in preventing throwers waste all ammo before a single of their weapons comes close to a player as they'll be able to shoot over obstackles. Might be a problem in Hyper's hell and closed in maps but isn't that the case already? Open maps would be much more interesting with projectiles flying from above.

Just a suggestion.