Quote:once again in regards to your arguments over drop rates. people aren't happy with them you even note yourself that there have been threads of a similar nature for a long time. take a second to read what the players are asking in these threads...is there a "lower the drop rates thread anywhere?". it is obvious that the drop rates a too low for the community's liking (maybe except you).
Do I wish I got more lead, water, zinc, copper, and everything? Yes, of course I do. Why shouldn't I? What makes me richer is always the preferred option to most people. However, I don't care about getting richer. My concern is making sure that new and poor players are on a level playing field. To date, I have not seen a single drop rate thread that works in such a system. There is either buff the rates in Ragnarok, and most public ragnarok runs for the NA community occur with closed groups and exclude those players. In EU, from my experience, this is not the case. The other example is a blanket buff drops please. Of course, this has the most significant effect in Ragnarok, since that drops the most valuable materials, and as stated above, will not help the new and poor players. I will oppose any change that will have a much greater impact for that group that you know I am referring too, at the general expense of the public. Few if any threads that say drop rates should be increased are made by people outside that group(I count only two and one of those is only 4 posts long), and almost all if not all of them are made by those inside. That alone tells me something about who is making these threads, why and their goal in doing so. It is a goal I disagree with entirely. To that end, if those are to be representative of the community as a whole, which I highly doubt, then I am certain I am correct in my previous posts here and what I am posting now.
Quote: yes you try to stress the changing nature of drop rates and how they cannot be accurately described. and yet here you are demanding exact data. the answer to your argument is no an exact idea of the drop rates cannot be given.
I figure that with 252 runs of data from 16 or more players, you could get pretty close to an accurate number for something like Water. Other materials might be a bit more difficult, since counting Nord battle priests is much harder than Valkyries.
Quote: however what is apparent is the current distaste amongst the community when it comes to green drops what do they want? more drops when do they want them? now.
Doesn't everybody? That doesn't make it a legitimate complaint or an argument.
Quote: you also accuse me of exhibit scare tactics. forgive me if im wrong but when the people aren't happy with something they disconnect themselves from it. no players no mod simple. if that scares you then im sorry but sometimes we have to face the real world (you can't deny that more and more people are going AFG hell one guy even expresses the issues raised here as a reason for his leave).
I don't think more people are going AFG now than before because of drops. It is possible a greater number total, but that is because the mod is growing. At least, according to recent developer statement. If there are more people, it is generally to be expected that more would end up going AFG. Anyways, I don't see drops being listed as a reason for most of them. There is a lack of time, important things going on in their personal life. Few say drops are the reason. If I am wrong, then I would be happy to admit it, but I don't see that right now.
Quote: and this business about getting nothing useful from my posts...and how they offer no help or solution to the problems addressed. that in itself is entire hypocrisy, i haven't heard a single suggestion from you about how to solve these problems. in short im sorry that i don't have all the data at hand, but denying the problem completely because of a lack of this data is not helpful at all.
That is because on the drop system as we know it, I do not believe there is a better system. I do think there should be some way to reward players for playing often with drops, but I am still thinking on that idea and want to make sure it makes sense and addresses some of the legitimate concerns that surround the drop rate system, before I would even think of posting it.
Quote:im not even going to bother quoting you on the rest of that paragraph as it is just plain bigotry. However i will offer you some stats as you love them so much, (14 rag events 11-12 legendaries) compare that with the 252 rag runs...a fair system im sure. on back on the topic of afk/leechers would you have me believe that "hey it's only illegal unless you get caught?" you forget that it takes time to boot up a game let alone find an admin willing to do so before a boss wave (as a leecher/afk is determined over a period of time not a split second)
I don't see why it is not fair. You all have an equal chance to loot any specific legendary. You are just less lucky. It can be seen as annoying and frustrating, sure. It's still fair though. On the leacher/AFK. I can't speak for every admin, I can't even speak for any of them, but I know I would if I heard it reported. Unfortunately I don't see these things reported by you or most anyone in the group you know I am referring to. Maybe once or twice in 252 runs I have seen one of you report such a thing. I don't really see how you can blame this on admins for being unwilling, since you have only tried, to my knowledge, .79% of the time. That might be wrong, I could recheck my logs if you think it is, but I'm pretty confident on it.
Quote:where is YOUR stats and evidence for this one? and to clarify i never admitted that he was exaggerating, however i can't prove it's truthfulness neither can you prove against it.
Common sense. Dan is not a trustworthy source when it comes to drops. That's just the way it is. You take a very extreme and dubious claim, consider just who made it, and consider your own experience, and it ends up as a lie. One month of Ragnarok runs, given the daily frequency with which he plays it, would be at least 30 runs. Then, you have to consider he looted nothing else at all. Not even a heavy cloth or sturdy wood. That's unbelievably unlikely.
Quote:now you assume that a player who owns a dep shield and tier 1 armour has to be poor?, that was merely an example. a rich player could just as easily equip those items and they too would be of less help than someone else to the team.
Given any random name that I have not noticed before, yes. Unless I specifically know otherwise, it is a fair guess that someone who owns and uses tier 1 armour and a dep shield as a t4 or hero is poor. That is a pretty logical conclusion, given t4 armour costs no more than 30k, give or take a bit. Would you assume a player who uses tier 1 armour and a dep shield on Ragnarok(Since that is what is being discussed) is actually wealthy? I don't think so, it would be a long shot at best to suggest that.
Quote:there is no quote of me saying that the high tiered players should not have to help level the red shirts (in fact i was questioning someone's response in regards to private servers being re-introduced "and why should the high tier players have to help the redshirts" i believe it was more along those lines).
Well, that was a direct quote from your posts. Specifically, it is the last post on the second page of your list(currently).
http://puu.sh/5sMS4.jpg. In case you don't want to look yourself. That looks like pretty conclusive proof that you said "High tier players should not have to help the red shirts". I left out the level since that was not why I included that quote originally, nor did I say or imply leveling, but I suppose it does not make that much difference.
Quote:why have a level cap on hard and ragnarok? lets remove it shall we because that's were all the elitist's hang out. as you can see segregation is present in NI whether you like it or not.
This is, of course, entirely different than intentionally excluding a vast majority of persons who qualify for the level cap based on what gear they own. There is a certain logical understanding that your characters stats matter greatly, and that someone with 1 in everything could not possibly do anything in hard or ragnarok. There is no understanding that someone who can't afford a short heavy cade could not possibly do anything in hard or ragnarok. Level requirements are entirely different than gear segregation.
Quote:that's preposterous, i'll go put my shield up in a corner and watch you tube videos after all im not trying just as hard but i get worse results (the fact is they're better of for it) the point being....yes it is hard to tell leech from hero but there are many ways to circumvent leechers without going to the effort of logging into irc and waiting for an admin to launch the game before the leecher gets lucky.
I could quote the rules on leaching, but I think it is shorter this way. Leaching is not the same as being AFK. Leaching means you aren't contributing at all, and not to an extent that is reasonable for your level. If someone did 20 waves of ragnarok as a sniper and got only 10 kills, and they were not healing or arguably juggling, then they were probably leaching. If you sit in a corner with a shield up and watch youtube, you are AFK. Leaching requires you don't do anything, and or you don't meet a reasonable expectation and the reason for that is you probably weren't trying at all and were simply soaking in assist xp. If you don't want to get an admin to deal with the leacher or AFK player, then you deserve the punishment of them getting the loot. Why else would admins exist, if not to enforce the rules and deal with situations like this and others? If you find it too much effort, then your failure to act is directly related to their receiving a drop. The only punishment here is on yourself, and in such a situation, rightly so I'd say.
Anyways, I'll respond to other posts later in the day. I hope this post is not viewed as aggressive as the other ones were. I did try to tone it down.
, in regards to your second point, i can see where your coming from but green drops aren't as big a problem as legendary's which was where the complaint of afk and leechers came from. if the drop rates are going to be low anyway and afk leechers get the same as team players then why shouldn't we all just afk rather than playing the mod? why not offer some reward to those who actually play the mod instead of wasting their time carrying these guys? (at least they'll get some return)