Map vote change

[madjsoh]

completely off topic..again but why not have a system whereby parts of the map are unlocked upon completing certain waves or at a certain time thus promoting movement

[oposum]

One way to do it could be to remove deployables and have maps designet for each mode with already placed destructable props placed throughout the map, so if you go to the spot at the end right away, you wouldnt make it to the last wave as the last defense would be destroyed if it were to be used vs all the waves.. Something along those lines :p Would make the maps more interactive.

Hmm, maybe make cades only deployable on certain spots for limited amount of times? That way players would be forced to use shittier spots for earlier waves (placed forward) and gradually fall back to better spots as you get further.

I doubt mobile shieldwalls will become viable alternative to cading, unless shield coverage gets increased to ridiculous level, since pretty much every time I saw it done it ended up in slashers getting shot in the face despite being covered with shields (especially on uneven terrain).

[clickeverywhere]

Off topic= but related to what Hypernoma was saying:

Unless the mod is drastically changed, I don't foresee any changes to our current tactics for tackling hard and ragnarok mode. Shield walls are the most efficient as well as the easiest method of playing the game. Players will always tend toward sure-fire efficiency after the initial phase of exploration and experimentation. A moving shield wall takes a high level of skill, coordination, and knowledge, which are things you'll have difficulty finding on a public server. Considering the hectic nature of the game, it is unlikely that you can type out commands so teamspeak is necessary for it to work. Or at least everybody has to be on the same page/briefed beforehand so that they know what to do in scenario A through Z. But again, this would be involve higher risk compared to the current style of play. Most players prefer low-effort for high-reward, and that is why no tactic is more prevalent than the shield wall.

The consequences for dying are harsh in this mod. If you decide to be a little adventurous you could die and miss out on every wave (unless your team has a bunch of tomes). Even then, you will miss out on potential loots on waves known to drop good crafting materials. That's why most people play it safe.

I agree that the shield wall is boring. It's the most primitive form of teamwork possible in this game. It is the only way to allow for unskilled members of the team to contribute in a slightly more meaningful way, because seriously, how can you screw up repeatedly pressing the LMB (but apparently you can, as I have learned from experience)? Too many players these days are incompetent at fighting bots face-to-face in this game, and I think kiting solo (as melee and as ranged) would help to improve the base skill level of the community. It would help with developing decision making skills, planning, and map awareness. A good player should have a plan for every scenario. I see people continuing to slash straight ahead even when nords are slipping by and attacking them from the side. Or commandos who don't switch to shielding when a shielder dies. These are things that should be obvious but apparently are not.

The shield wall enables players to continue to be bad at the game. It simplifies the actions and thought required from each player to the bare minimum, and yet somehow players still manage to stuff it up. I now understand that encouraging the use of the shield wall has been a poor influence on the player base, because it has discouraged players from thinking for themselves, and outside of their given roles. The very idea of roles has led to inflexibility, stubbornness, buffoonery, and general incompetence.

Sorry for going off on a tangent. I look forward to the changes that the devs have in store for the mod. The things Hyper has hinted at all sound quite exciting.

[Suns]

Off topic= but related to what Hypernoma was saying:

Unless the mod is drastically changed, I don't foresee any changes to our current tactics for tackling hard and ragnarok mode. Shield walls are the most efficient as well as the easiest method of playing the game. Players will always tend toward sure-fire efficiency after the initial phase of exploration and experimentation. A moving shield wall takes a high level of skill, coordination, and knowledge, which are things you'll have difficulty finding on a public server. Considering the hectic nature of the game, it is unlikely that you can type out commands so teamspeak is necessary for it to work. Or at least everybody has to be on the same page/briefed beforehand so that they know what to do in scenario A through Z. But again, this would be involve higher risk compared to the current style of play. Most players prefer low-effort for high-reward, and that is why no tactic is more prevalent than the shield wall.

The consequences for dying are harsh in this mod. If you decide to be a little adventurous you could die and miss out on every wave (unless your team has a bunch of tomes). Even then, you will miss out on potential loots on waves known to drop good crafting materials. That's why most people play it safe.

I agree that the shield wall is boring. It's the most primitive form of teamwork possible in this game. It is the only way to allow for unskilled members of the team to contribute in a slightly more meaningful way, because seriously, how can you screw up repeatedly pressing the LMB (but apparently you can, as I have learned from experience)? Too many players these days are incompetent at fighting bots face-to-face in this game, and I think kiting solo (as melee and as ranged) would help to improve the base skill level of the community. It would help with developing decision making skills, planning, and map awareness. A good player should have a plan for every scenario. I see people continuing to slash straight ahead even when nords are slipping by and attacking them from the side. Or commandos who don't switch to shielding when a shielder dies. These are things that should be obvious but apparently are not.

The shield wall enables players to continue to be bad at the game. It simplifies the actions and thought required from each player to the bare minimum, and yet somehow players still manage to stuff it up. I now understand that encouraging the use of the shield wall has been a poor influence on the player base, because it has discouraged players from thinking for themselves, and outside of their given roles. The very idea of roles has led to inflexibility, stubbornness, buffoonery, and general incompetence.

Sorry for going off on a tangent. I look forward to the changes that the devs have in store for the mod. The things Hyper has hinted at all sound quite exciting.

^^
Redshirt's behavior has been very depressing lately. They just can't seem to listen to those that try to teach them how to play the game successfully. In the end, its very sad how the next generation players in this game are going to be.

[Malong]

I find it very frustrating finding a Ragnarok game.  Many times a server gets some good players, then the map changes and players leave

I think we should be able to use the "vote for a map change system"..... On Ragnarok servers only.

Opinions please.

Adding a map vote won't encourage players to stay between map changes. They play that map because it's fast and convenient, then leave because they don't want to play a second rag run. Tricksters/WS can consistently beat rag on roughly 40% of the maps:

Spoiler

Fortress Under Siege
Hidden Cave
Offshore
Royal Observatory
Swadian Castle
Swadian City
Swadian Keep
Swadian Hamlet
Swadian Temple
Swadian Town
The First Defense

While I don't know you, since it seems the root of your issue is finding ways to play rag more often, I'd suggest you: bring good support items (SHC/Barrel/Tome), be willing to shield/heal/juggle, demonstrate your knowledge and/or be willing to learn, ask to join events, find a house or at least a group of players and make a good impression, and in general, make yourself known (in a positive light) to the groups that play rag. Due to recent events, the group that plays rag the most will only bother logging in for a public server if there are 17 players (at least 1 admin) willing to join a server together.

[The Cid]

Adding a map vote won't encourage players to stay between map changes. They play that map because it's fast and convenient, then leave because they don't want to play a second rag run. Tricksters/WS can consistently beat rag on roughly 40% of the maps:

The Idea of adding a map vote is to help get a game started, that can be the hard part.  Once a good map had been played players tend to leave regardless.

[The Cid]

While I don't know you, since it seems the root of your issue is finding ways to play rag more often, I'd suggest you: bring good support items (SHC/Barrel/Tome), be willing to shield/heal/juggle, demonstrate your knowledge and/or be willing to learn, ask to join events, find a house or at least a group of players and make a good impression, and in general, make yourself known (in a positive light) to the groups that play rag. Due to recent events, the group that plays rag the most will only bother logging in for a public server if there are 17 players (at least 1 admin) willing to join a server together.

I have work, young family etc, so cant commit to playing at set times thats why I have never joined a house.  There must be many casual players like me that find it hard to get a decent Ragnarok game going. 

[Unknown_Soldier]

I agree. I play not that much anymore and most of the time I get stuck in normal matches.
And 4 hours for a rag game is just to long. I play about 1 hour a day and 4 would be way to much for a chance of getting nothing. This game is designed for dedicated players. Its pretty hard for casual players to advance.