Illustrious

[[ASSASSINE]]

currently this great Odin drop isnt worth anything, because only the 1 handed Hero classes can use it. My suggestion would be to make it useable by everyone , this would fit pretty well as the Fell Edge is useable by everyone, dealing 53 c(+ shield Bonus) and a Thor drop, making Illustrious useable by everyone would be the straith upgrade, as dropped by odin and dealing 57 c.
Suggestions, Opinions?

[Handef_Snizel]

I second this motion!

[Gimli]

I would rather suggest making it available for every hero class instead, since it´s gonna be OP if its usable by every peasant.

[Yabu]

Buff one-handed classes instead. It's kinda useless being those atm, so why not?

[Timmix]

Agree

[clickeverywhere]

I don't know about the other 1-handed classes, but the legionnaire definitely feels like it could use a buff in one-handed proficiency.

Here comes a rant!

I am going to compare the legionnaire and the royal guard. The benefits of the legionnaire seem inconsequential to those of the royal guard in terms of melee fighting. The royal guard is almost equal in terms of one-handed proficiency, has the same power strike, and has more shield skill, which means that he can afford to be more patient in timing his attacks and helps in preventing premature death. Having one less iron flesh than the RG also contributes to this feeling of imbalance.

Furthermore, to get the most out of the legionnaire's bonuses, you would have to adopt an unorthodox play-style that would not fit at all with the current tactics used in-game. This play-style would also be, in my opinion, highly ineffective and would entail you throwing a few times before engaging the enemy in melee (e.g. at the Swadian City gate patch 0.6.1). The problem with this is that you very quickly run out of throwables unless you opt to use two stacks of throwables with your one-hander and shield. This, I feel, prevents you from taking advantage of two handed weapons, which is something no commando should do. If you do opt to carry a two-hander around as well, you'll only have one stack of throwables meaning frequent trips to the refill box, further reducing your usefulness. You'd be better off sticking to pure melee, which is why one-handed proficiency should be buffed. The throwing capability should just be a small fun bonus, not a focus of the class.

I am using a dreaded war pick so that may skew my perception a bit. When using the DWP as a legionnaire, I don't feel much of an improvement over when I'm using it as a RG. Maybe one of the high-end-craftable legionnaire-only one-handers would change my opinion, but as far as I know, most of those things are cut damage, and the one that does do blunt damage is shorter than the DWP. What I'd like is to feel more of an improvement in the 1-handed proficiency department.

I'll edit this post later so that it makes more sense, but hopefully everyone who actually reads it gets the idea.

[Deer]

every time click talks about legionnaire, all of the bad examples or bad qualities of how a legionnaire plays...
are exactly how i play as legionnaire
i carry 2 stacks of VHTA and a HWH, and still dont own a decent shield
on the subject of the illustrious...i don't see any reason to own a 1h (as legionnaire) that i can't throw
i think all of the 1h hero class only weapons are really only useful on Aventurier or Sentinel. And the legionnaire only 1h are kind of silly.
i understand that the original purpose was for 1h Commando Hero, before they added the throwing ability. Now, however, no one is really gonna spend that much gold to make these weapons.

[Legend]

Yeah. Good points. That whole stuff will get an overhaul.

[oposum]

The royal guard is almost equal in terms of one-handed proficiency, has the same power strike, and has more shield skill, which means that he can afford to be more patient in timing his attacks and helps in preventing premature death. Having one less iron flesh than the RG also contributes to this feeling of imbalance.

If I recall correctly, you get roughly 15% damage increase per 100 WPF. legionare has 40 more 1h WPF than royal guard which would get you roughly 6% more damage with 1 handers, meaning that when using 1 handers legionare effectively hits like it has 1 more power strike than royal guard.
Iron flesh is rather useless in nord invasion, since you get 1 HP per 1 strength, meaning every class gets extra 30 HP from maxed stats. Starting HP is 35, adding 30 extra from strength, you get 65 HP (which will have any class with strength maxed out). Iron flesh gives 2 HP per point, with all t4 classes having at least 4, which gets you  73 HP as any t4 class. Difference between legionare and royal guard is 77 vs 79 HP. Difference is almost negligible, although it could make you take 1 more hit due to IF working rather well with high armor. So all in all, difference between HP of classes is almost non-existant, armor is what makes commandos have more staying power.

I am using a dreaded war pick so that may skew my perception a bit. When using the DWP as a legionnaire, I don't feel much of an improvement over when I'm using it as a RG. Maybe one of the high-end-craftable legionnaire-only one-handers would change my opinion, but as far as I know, most of those things are cut damage, and the one that does do blunt damage is shorter than the DWP. What I'd like is to feel more of an improvement in the 1-handed proficiency department.

It's probably due to fact that DWP punches thru all armor like it's paper (due to being piercing and having extra 20% armor penetration) but has rather low absolute damage, making that extra 6% of damage you do barely noticable.


1 handed hero classes really need a buff, since 1 handers are barely viable offensive weapons (short length and rather low damage) and are almost completely useless in shieldwall.

[Tsukiyomi]

I think taking away the Illustrious as a hero only weapon would be tragic.  I've spawned mine in when i was leveling my commando and must say that the true glory of it is only seen when it's used by a hero with the skills for it.  Also a lot of the merit to being a 1h hero is that you gain the ability to bring this sword and a couple others that are almost not even worthy of being mentioned.  It's the same as saying that all commandos should be able to equip the best shields such as the aegis.  If you could, what would be the point of using a royal guard?  With 8 shielding as a legionnaire I have picked up two aegis and shielded full ragnarok games without any problems.  If you start taking away hero class specific items it really starts hurting that class and takes away most of the advantage of choosing certain hero classes.