Kiting stuff, keep it here!

[[ASSASSINE]]

@ maroon: every decent kiting map is fucked up right now, yes i checked already.
well i was able to solo to thor before update...prince is not that big deal.

[Terath]

Look, even though kiting was a major part of the game, the point is that it wasn't supposed to be.
Nord Invasion is supposed to be based off of teamwork; the kiting, however, was changed, because it's not supposed to be part of the game. Think of it as a bug fix.
Love it or hate it, the developers did the right thing; they improved the maps, making teamwork needed, and that's what NI was supposed to be this whole time.
Stop complaining. The devs pointed the game more towards what they wanted it to be and what it was supposed to be. Stop acting like it's a huge loss.
E.g: if you want to kite, go play native.

[Legend]

Look, even though kiting was a major part of the game, the point is that it wasn't supposed to be.
Nord Invasion is supposed to be based off of teamwork; the kiting, however, was changed, because it's not supposed to be part of the game. Think of it as a bug fix.
Love it or hate it, the developers did the right thing; they improved the maps, making teamwork needed, and that's what NI was supposed to be this whole time.
Stop complaining. The devs pointed the game more towards what they wanted it to be and what it was supposed to be. Stop acting like it's a huge loss.
E.g: if you want to kite, go play native. Loser.

Before he gets the hate, just imagine i wrote this. That is exactly the point zero.

[[ASSASSINE]]

Look, even though kiting was a major part of the game, the point is that it wasn't supposed to be.
Nord Invasion is supposed to be based off of teamwork; the kiting, however, was changed, because it's not supposed to be part of the game. Think of it as a bug fix.
Love it or hate it, the developers did the right thing; they improved the maps, making teamwork needed, and that's what NI was supposed to be this whole time.
Stop complaining. The devs pointed the game more towards what they wanted it to be and what it was supposed to be. Stop acting like it's a huge loss.
E.g: if you want to kite, go play native.

why did we change it now then, not 2  yers ago?  as you can read in my post earlier, hyper agreed on archers kiting. Why have we done this change now? it was working perfectly fine until now, so whats the reasons for it? more ppl complaining that the skilled guys can kite?

[Terath]

link=topic=24687.msg172211#msg172211 date=1396124563]
[quote author=Terath link=topic=24687.msg172207#msg172207 date=1396122708]
Look, even though kiting was a major part of the game, the point is that it wasn't supposed to be.
Nord Invasion is supposed to be based off of teamwork; the kiting, however, was changed, because it's not supposed to be part of the game. Think of it as a bug fix.
Love it or hate it, the developers did the right thing; they improved the maps, making teamwork needed, and that's what NI was supposed to be this whole time.
Stop complaining. The devs pointed the game more towards what they wanted it to be and what it was supposed to be. Stop acting like it's a huge loss.
E.g: if you want to kite, go play native.

why did we change it now then, not 2  yers ago?  as you can read in my post earlier, hyper agreed on archers kiting. Why have we done this change now? it was working perfectly fine until now, so whats the reasons for it? more ppl complaining that the skilled guys can kite?
[/quote]
They didn't change it two years ago because:
A| It's hard to mapmake.
B| To remove kiting, that means they have to overhaul maps and drops and maybe weapons, which is also hard.
C| They have a ton on their plate to begin with and this is just one of the things that they wanted to change; changes like removing horses came before this.
Also, horses. Horses were the kiting KINGS; they didn't need any form of team, they had heavy armor, they had lances, they had heavily armored horses, etc.
This is why they removed them. They wanted the game to focus on teamplay and teamwork. Now, they also removed two maps, one being a sandy beach and one being a flat plain of grass with a couple trees, hills, and such - these two were perfect for kiting, so they removed them. Now, archers are the kiting kings, behind cavalry, and they are still working towards fixing it. See?

[Maroon]

link=topic=24687.msg172211#msg172211 date=1396124563]
[quote author=Terath link=topic=24687.msg172207#msg172207 date=1396122708]
Look, even though kiting was a major part of the game, the point is that it wasn't supposed to be.
Nord Invasion is supposed to be based off of teamwork; the kiting, however, was changed, because it's not supposed to be part of the game. Think of it as a bug fix.
Love it or hate it, the developers did the right thing; they improved the maps, making teamwork needed, and that's what NI was supposed to be this whole time.
Stop complaining. The devs pointed the game more towards what they wanted it to be and what it was supposed to be. Stop acting like it's a huge loss.
E.g: if you want to kite, go play native.

why did we change it now then, not 2  yers ago?  as you can read in my post earlier, hyper agreed on archers kiting. Why have we done this change now? it was working perfectly fine until now, so whats the reasons for it? more ppl complaining that the skilled guys can kite?
[/quote]

If you could link to people complaining "that the skilled guys can kite", that'd be great.
As for changing the maps now, the dev team is comprised of more people than just Hyper, and so the general direction they want the mod to go to can change. Why didn't they remove cavalry earlier? Why didn't they bring it back earlier? Because it is a change of direction, and people (and though I'm not 100% sure, I think devs count as people excluding Hande) can change their minds.
And lastly, as Handef said above, it is not impossible to kite with the current maps. Sure, it's harder, and you can't kill Thor on your own anymore, but if Handef can kite to wave 19 normal, I'm sure people better at kiting than Handef can and will make it to Prince (no hard feelings, Handef, wave 19 is way higher than my record ).

[Timmix]

Kiting is a great alternative play-style that I think every player should learn, no matter the class. To discourage it would be a step in the wrong direction. Through kiting, players improve their individual skill in ways that aren't possible when playing behind barricades. It requires quick thinking, good decision making, and a bit of planning. I'm not saying these things aren't necessary when barricading and shielding -- they are necessary, which is why they should be practiced and improved. But the lax environment of the shield wall does not foster growth in these areas.

A few more things you can improve through kiting:

• Positioning and awareness.
  
• Aim.
  
• CQC.
  
• Knowledge of bot movement patterns.
  

That being said, if you join a server where players are trying to barricade, don't go off kiting. If you join a server where a player wants to just kite alone, see if that player would mind you joining. If he does, then just join another server. Joining in despite protest will just cause the other person to leave. There are plenty of servers to play on and different play-styles can be accommodated.

Now if, for example, all the servers were constantly filled without an empty server to spare, taking a server for yourself or a small group should be discouraged. Otherwise, why not just leave players who want to play alone or in groups of 2s or 3s to their own devices?

Took the words right out of my mouth. A lot of people enjoy kiting for what it is so why not convert 1 or 2 servers into kiting servers with specific maps that are suited to kiting (but made to be challenging nonetheless)?

[The Cid]

I did some testing, was able to solo to wave 19 on traders valley, wave 16 on old village and wave 17 on outskirts. And maybe if  I weren't so shit at kiting I would of killed prince...

In your own words kiting is easy, yet not a single map can you kill prince?? Lets be honest kiting does take skill and practice.

[The Cid]

Kiting is a great alternative play-style that I think every player should learn, no matter the class. To discourage it would be a step in the wrong direction. Through kiting, players improve their individual skill in ways that aren't possible when playing behind barricades. It requires quick thinking, good decision making, and a bit of planning. I'm not saying these things aren't necessary when barricading and shielding -- they are necessary, which is why they should be practiced and improved. But the lax environment of the shield wall does not foster growth in these areas.

A few more things you can improve through kiting:

• Positioning and awareness.
  
• Aim.
  
• CQC.
  
• Knowledge of bot movement patterns.
  

That being said, if you join a server where players are trying to barricade, don't go off kiting. If you join a server where a player wants to just kite alone, see if that player would mind you joining. If he does, then just join another server. Joining in despite protest will just cause the other person to leave. There are plenty of servers to play on and different play-styles can be accommodated.

Now if, for example, all the servers were constantly filled without an empty server to spare, taking a server for yourself or a small group should be discouraged. Otherwise, why not just leave players who want to play alone or in groups of 2s or 3s to their own devices?

This is spot on, I love this mod but feel the anti kiting stance is more harmful to this great mod than good.

[The Cid]

[quote author=[ASSASSINE] link=topic=24687.msg172211#msg172211 date=1396124563]
[quote author=Terath link=topic=24687.msg172207#msg172207 date=1396122708]
Look, even though kiting was a major part of the game, the point is that it wasn't supposed to be.
Nord Invasion is supposed to be based off of teamwork; the kiting, however, was changed, because it's not supposed to be part of the game. Think of it as a bug fix.
Love it or hate it, the developers did the right thing; they improved the maps, making teamwork needed, and that's what NI was supposed to be this whole time.
Stop complaining. The devs pointed the game more towards what they wanted it to be and what it was supposed to be. Stop acting like it's a huge loss.
E.g: if you want to kite, go play native.

why did we change it now then, not 2  yers ago?  as you can read in my post earlier, hyper agreed on archers kiting. Why have we done this change now? it was working perfectly fine until now, so whats the reasons for it? more ppl complaining that the skilled guys can kite?
[/quote]
They didn't change it two years ago because:
A| It's hard to mapmake.
B| To remove kiting, that means they have to overhaul maps and drops and maybe weapons, which is also hard.
C| They have a ton on their plate to begin with and this is just one of the things that they wanted to change; changes like removing horses came before this.
Also, horses. Horses were the kiting KINGS; they didn't need any form of team, they had heavy armor, they had lances, they had heavily armored horses, etc.
This is why they removed them. They wanted the game to focus on teamplay and teamwork. Now, they also removed two maps, one being a sandy beach and one being a flat plain of grass with a couple trees, hills, and such - these two were perfect for kiting, so they removed them. Now, archers are the kiting kings, behind cavalry, and they are still working towards fixing it. See?
[/quote]

I see alot of players say yea great remove kiting as this is a team based mod, maybe players like you dont put 30hrs+  a week into this mod? If you did you would realize that playing in a team is NOT ALWAYS a option, but sitting around for 30mins or so waiting for a good kiting map is, or was xD