Kiting stuff, keep it here!

[oposum]

kitting is far more diverse and challenging than the current shield wall. you forgot to mention crucial elements such as timing shots in accordance with shields not to mention shooting over them in some cases. you also have to prepare for certain waves. assassins, you job is to pick off the mele ones before they reach you as they are quicker than us swadians. for  ballistas and other ranged waves, you must find a position that deters nords from flanking whilst providing peeking abilities. for juggernauts you need to find yourself a large space which allows you the time to slowly pierce through their heavy armour. and let's not get started on the mixed waves let alone final bosses which are extremely difficult to kite.

As I've said before, it is more skillful than shieldwall, but everything you mentioned takes about 5 kiting runs to master (if you had any prior experience in Warband) if you just play it safe (running instead of taking risky shots). Except for bosses. I could be the exception here, due to playing Warband for a long long time, but kiting was always easy to me.

not to mention when kiting their is a distinct lack of tomes and barrels due to your 1 life in stark comparison to the many lives you get when in a shield wall (by applying your logic that only 2 people can kite at a time). as you can see kitting is no trivial matter and it can catter for more 16 players effectively as you can see on maps such as first defence, hande's retreat and port assault (pre-patch).

2 people is optimal number for kiting, due to 2nd guy spawning in 3 extra bots, instead of total of 8 extra (IIRC) for 3rd guy. It's because you get 35% more bots for double firepower.
All skills you named for kiting ARE pretty trivial (yep, for shieldwall it's even worse).
Also, most public runs are done without tomes.

the shield wall is far from comparable, to beat a boss above normal it has become accepted that tomes are a necessity and that a spam of cades are crucial. why? because the maps have been made with little to no room for escape unlike my beloved first defence. secondly, the shield wall caters to leechers and afkers where as the kite is far more unforgiving to these hated aspects. lastly, you cannot have a 1 slasher and 1 shielder and call it a shield wall because it's not a wall it's a weaker variant that has been created with the intent of failing in order to prove a point against kiting

first defence was more catering to ranged units. but what map these days isn't. shield walls act as a form of cade preservation that allow the ranged to do more damage whilst saving cades for the final boss. shielding was possible on first defence.

Tomes are a must on maps which don't offer lovely enfilading fire spots like TFD, since it's hard to stun-lock bosses without enfilading fire spots.

My point was that kiting offers a lot of advantages (gold and mats mainly) while requiring a tad more skill and a lot less equipment.

[Winter]

We just did an easy 3 man kite to wave 16 on our first try.  Yes, three people that do not normally kite all kited together and got to wave 16 on their very first try.  We even had people joining and leaving all throughout the run, messing up Nord pathing and getting each other killed while the same 3 people kept killing and kiting.  Kiting is not dead, the maps that were insanely easy just got nerfed.  Get over it.

Map: Swadian Hamlet
Players: Human - Pike - Tome
Mystic - Archer - Tome
Winter - Pike - Barrel (I usually kite on archer )
Amount of Nords left: 3 x Heavy Huscarl
1 x Nord War Marshall
1 x Nord Ranger
Amount of players that weren't us that joined and spawned throughout: 7
Green drops/Hardened Metal found: 0

We did it purely for fun and to prove that you could.  Mission accomplished.

[human_being]

Kiting is not dead, the maps that were insanely easy just got nerfed.  Get over it.

this.

All hail winter.

[Leberkass]

Well, it is not impossible to kite just kited till war marshal, too.
But it looks like for the guys who posted here, that the devs wanted to kind of let the people play in large teams and hide behind the cades and wait for the enemies and not kite that often anymore, because kiting kind of disallows teamwork, that 's what some guys think. But kiting is not only play for himself and ignore the others, ask them to leave and so on....
But if you want to kite it requires teamwork too and there you cannot go afk like click said and you have to work. For example: you kite with 3 other guys no teamspeak nothing to communicante. There you need to protect each other that he does not die, because the bot is already pretty close to him. That is more teamwork in my opinion, than on full servers, where the half team is afk and let things despawn.
But during a kite you are always active help each other and do not stand afk and fullfill both meanings of the word teamwork.
And if you blame some guys for being active and get a run a bit quicker than sorry, but then move your ads and be active instead of just moaning on runs and say during ranged waves brb and doing nothing. Ilt is the ranged guys of your team that kill those even if they have to go out of the afkers range and theycome back and moan about the ranged guys doing their job, then sorry then you are wrong in someservers, because it is the job that they kill the rangers even if it sometimes happen out of range.
Well deal with that most guys don't do it on purpose.
Greets Tarrod

[Protato]

Well, it is not impossible to kite just kited till war marshal, too.
But it looks like for the guys who posted here, that the devs wanted to kind of let the people play in large teams and hide behind the cades and wait for the enemies and not kite that often anymore, because kiting kind of disallows teamwork, that 's what some guys think. But kiting is not only play for himself and ignore the others, ask them to leave and so on....
But if you want to kite it requires teamwork too and there you cannot go afk like click said and you have to work. For example: you kite with 3 other guys no teamspeak nothing to communicante. There you need to protect each other that he does not die, because the bot is already pretty close to him. That is more teamwork in my opinion, than on full servers, where the half team is afk and let things despawn.
But during a kite you are always active help each other and do not stand afk and fullfill both meanings of the word teamwork.
And if you blame some guys for being active and get a run a bit quicker than sorry, but then move your ads and be active instead of just moaning on runs and say during ranged waves brb and doing nothing. Ilt is the ranged guys of your team that kill those even if they have to go out of the afkers range and theycome back and moan about the ranged guys doing their job, then sorry then you are wrong in someservers, because it is the job that they kill the rangers even if it sometimes happen out of range.
Well deal with that most guys don't do it on purpose.
Greets Tarrod

.  Precisely tarrod just said it all for us, more teamwork is in kiting, from using communication. (teamspeak ect)

[Winter]

Precisely tarrod just said it all for us, more teamwork is in kiting, from using communication. (teamspeak ect)

But this is a feature request, not an argument about which takes more teamwork...  What feature are you even requesting?  Maps that cater to ranged?  Current ones are fine, you can still win on them.  The insanely easy ones just got nerfed, same with the easy shield walling ones.  Is there something else you want?

[human_being]

Well, it is not impossible to kite just kited till war marshal, too.

This just made you complete "argument" ivalid.
Sounds like kiting is easlily possible - so whats the point anyway?

But it looks like for the guys who posted here, that the devs wanted to kind of let the people play in large teams and hide behind the cades and wait for the enemies and not kite that often anymore, because kiting kind of disallows teamwork, that 's what some guys think. But kiting is not only play for himself and ignore the others, ask them to leave and so on....

Kiting just gives you too many mats in short time, that makes the mod unbalanced.
Still, the easy maps really needed this nerf.

But if you want to kite it requires teamwork too and there you cannot go afk like click said and you have to work. For example: you kite with 3 other guys no teamspeak nothing to communicante. There you need to protect each other that he does not die, because the bot is already pretty close to him. That is more teamwork in my opinion, than on full servers, where the half team is afk and let things despawn.

No doubt, but the easy maps really needed this nerf.

But during a kite you are always active help each other and do not stand afk and fullfill both meanings of the word teamwork.

No doubt, but the easy maps really needed this nerf.

And if you blame some guys for being active and get a run a bit quicker than sorry, but then move your ads and be active instead of just moaning on runs and say during ranged waves brb and doing nothing.

As long as you do it in range - no one will complain. I bet if you are shielding and like 2 people run away to kill like 40 Vet Pikes, I bet you won't like it.

Greets Tarrod

And btw: the easy maps really needed this nerf.

[Protato]

[quote author=MentalTheProtato link=topic=24687.msg172538#msg172538 date=1396303804]
Precisely tarrod just said it all for us, more teamwork is in kiting, from using communication. (teamspeak ect)

But this is a feature request, not an argument about which takes more teamwork...  What feature are you even requesting?  Maps that cater to ranged?  Current ones are fine, you can still win on them.  The insanely easy ones just got nerfed, same with the easy shield walling ones.  Is there something else you want?
[/quote]Well I'm not wanting a arguemant , to be honest I'm shortering down the point that tarrod said, so don't be so rudeee...

[Winter]

Well I'm not wanting a arguemant , to be honest I'm shortering down the point that tarrod said, so don't be so rudeee...

It wasn't meant to be rude and honestly I don't see how it is, but I apologize that it came off to you as such.  I'm just stating that half of the arguments here don't even make sense...  People are arguing that kiting takes more skill than shielding.  I don't see how that is a feature request for anything.  If it is about the maps, statements have already been made.

[Maroon]

And if you blame some guys for being active and get a run a bit quicker than sorry, but then move your ads and be active instead of just moaning on runs and say during ranged waves brb and doing nothing. Ilt is the ranged guys of your team that kill those even if they have to go out of the afkers range and theycome back and moan about the ranged guys doing their job, then sorry then you are wrong in someservers, because it is the job that they kill the rangers even if it sometimes happen out of range.
Well deal with that most guys don't do it on purpose.
Greets Tarrod

So everyone who is not one of the 2 ranged people moving outside of assist exp of the rest is by definition afk? Not a shielder, a slasher, a healer, another ranged person, actually trying to do something? Yea, they're not moving out with the ranged ones, so they shouldn't be moaning, it's totally their own fault!