Kiting stuff, keep it here!

[Sir_Firebus]

I don't see any problems with kiting right now. Just stop nerfing maps and everything is fine

[Nka19]

I think the whole point of everything that's been said is a request for a stop of further kite map nerfing.

Now since I'm a kiter too, there's some things I'd also like to say.
I agree about people kiting away the nords on full team servers. Everyone should stay in range of assist XP. However if you see a team whiping, if you're a kiter you're making sure you have enough time to escape in case everything goes lose so you can kite the rest of the nords and save your team till the next spawn or to grab a tome while you do a map circle and tome others in. So how kiting isn't supportive in full team servers? It is! As long as people use it the right way. But if map is unkitable, there's a high chance you will fail as well.

Now as part of the kiting alone or with a friend or two. That's mostly done for fun and to test your abilities of how far you can survive, and of course for possible loots as well, who wouldn't like a reward for his hard work on reaching higher waves?
And as a side note, how do you think I became that good in archery? Lots of kiting practise, and what click said you gain self-awareness, learning how nords act so you know how to attack them efficiently. As you know, lots of people complains how they can't shot bots with shields up no matter what? Well that's something to learn about, as not all bots can be headshoted with shields up, so when bot comes close and lowers his shield you shot him in head the same second and jump away for a second nord in case he's close. If you miss you'll most likely get hit or die if you don't have good armor. So yes kiting takes skill, as an archer. Pikeman is easy, he penetrates all shields and just runs and shots. But it's slower since they need to refil every wave or 2.
And what's the most fun about kiting, is how to plan your kite routes, shoting from cover to cover so you don't get shot by ranged while you run from the melee attackers. Those who try and fail sure hell don't like kiting and they support this propaganda to destroy kiting. Well you can't get good in kiting if you just try it once or twice. But this is just another style of strategies for people to have fun on trying to beat the nord invasion. WE ARE having fun doing this, why removing our fun? Makes no sense, I love full package of nord invasion involving kiting and cading. As there's many choises of what you can do! Same as different classes, if you get bored of a pikeman you go play archer a bit and then later back to pikeman or some commando fun, changing to either you wanna play some normal, hard or kick nord's butt on ragnarok, we love it all and we can decide what we want to do.

Anyways as it's been said, kiting is a game style that's a part of the game and if you're to remove it it's like removing your leg from your body or something. You'll live but you'll be cripled!

Cheers,
Nka19

Edit: Also lets not overreact tho, as kiting isn't fully destroyed and devs are mostly trying to balance the maps even, but my post sums up the current facts that kiting is supportive to the team somtimes if used the right way and it's a part of the game so it's a request for kiting to not be picked on so hard. Kinda got tired of reading everyone repeating themselfs.

[Leberkass]

[quote author=Tarrod link=topic=24687.msg172536#msg172536 date=1396302067]
And if you blame some guys for being active and get a run a bit quicker than sorry, but then move your ads and be active instead of just moaning on runs and say during ranged waves brb and doing nothing. Ilt is the ranged guys of your team that kill those even if they have to go out of the afkers range and theycome back and moan about the ranged guys doing their job, then sorry then you are wrong in someservers, because it is the job that they kill the rangers even if it sometimes happen out of range.
Well deal with that most guys don't do it on purpose.
Greets Tarrod

So everyone who is not one of the 2 ranged people moving outside of assist exp of the rest is by definition afk? Not a shielder, a slasher, a healer, another ranged person, actually trying to do something? Yea, they're not moving out with the ranged ones, so they shouldn't be moaning, it's totally their own fault!
[/quote]

Why should there only be 2 ranged guys on a server. Most of the time, the majority of the players is in ranged mode. Can you imagine how often I saw guys on a public rag server who just stood around and needed 5 minutes to get the idea to tome and very often a lot of things such as a few tomes or cades just despawned, because the people alive just did nothing. And Maroon tbh you cannot lie, that that never happened on public servers. I never said public servers are bad, but just some communication of the team is missing, as you are not talking on Teamspeak or sending a PM on Steam.
And yes, the slashers are useless in my opinion for waves like the wave 18 on Ragnarok or on Hard, because the slashers will just get killed when they try to fight them in melee. For these waves it is the ranged Swadian Army, who speeds the run a bit up. And yes in my opinion for these waves you have to go sometimes out of ranged of the majority.
For example let´s take Hidden Cave. I like to play all modes there, but when you are shielder you are out of the xp range when they are shooting right in front of the Healing spot. And they do not run away and get out of range on purpose, because they want to steal the loot. No, they are just doing their job. I am not complaining about the map itself, just the xp range area, as Elmo said, needs to be a bit larger, so you want to shield on this map, because when I am shielding there, I think well there are my xp out of range. Sure it is annoying when a guy is kiting pikeman away from the majority and yes it is a big dick move, but then do not say that is the fault, because you can kite on this map, it is the person itself and his behaviour who leads him to what he is doing.

@human being: Yes, the maps Hande´s Retreat and Port Assault were too easy to kite, but when some people just post, naaaah nerf the maps kiting is ugly and it is too easy, then some people like me, Nka, Assassine, Alphaa or Wambo are just missing a part of NI which seems to dissapear from time to time, because some people just want to get kiting nerfed. I never said there shouldn´t be a change of the maps how they look like, but if you just nerf all maps and add nothing new where you can kite, no circle rounds needed, then I see that a lot of people are just annoyed of the mod.
It was a nice change, because you can still kite on some maps till wave 16 or so easily, but if you nerf some kiting maps, then you should give some maps a change and open some new kiting spots and tactics, so that the game never gets boring.
All I want to say is that when you nerf some maps at kiting you should not nerf all of them, that you are let them become really impossible to kite along, because then you just I don ´t know how to say it "right". You just let the guys feel like you want to get rid of kiting, but kiting is just another stile of playing NI and you should not get rid of it

Greets Tarrod

[Maroon]

It seems you have somewhat misinterpreted my post, so I'll break it down a bit for you. The last part of what I said was meant to be sarcastic, but that doesn't show quite as clearly when it's typed instead of said.

Why should there only be 2 ranged guys on a server. Most of the time, the majority of the players is in ranged mode.

I never said that there should only be 2 ranged guys, I was referring to the one or two guys running out of range of the others, hence why I said in my last post "Not a shielder, a slasher, a healer, another ranged person". A team most certainly needs more than 2 raged players.

And Maroon tbh you cannot lie, that that never happened on public servers. I never said public servers are bad, but just some communication of the team is missing, as you are not talking on Teamspeak or sending a PM on Steam.

Where would I have stated, or "lied" about public runs being smooth and effective? Where did I say that you've said that public servers are bad?

For example let´s take Hidden Cave. I like to play all modes there, but when you are shielder you are out of the xp range when they are shooting right in front of the Healing spot. And they do not run away and get out of range on purpose, because they want to steal the loot. No, they are just doing their job. I am not complaining about the map itself, just the xp range area, as Elmo said, needs to be a bit larger, so you want to shield on this map, because when I am shielding there, I think well there are my xp out of range. Sure it is annoying when a guy is kiting pikeman away from the majority and yes it is a big dick move, but then do not say that is the fault, because you can kite on this map, it is the person itself and his behaviour who leads him to what he is doing.

I'm pretty sure that Hidden Cave is the only map at the moment in which the cading spot is out of range of the common ranged spot.
Again, I have never said that maps should not have the option to kite because people run out of range of the others. That is a discussion that might not be best suited for this topic= as it's just about someone being an arse. That does not necessarily mean that kiting is bad. But if you read through my previous posts, and those of others, you can see that that is only one of many points made about kiting.

I'd like to point out on your last point, when you said that kiting is a different style of playing NI, and should therefor not be removed, that the existence of a certain style is not a reason to preserve it. I'll let you work that one out yourself.

[Leberkass]

Well, it seems like both guys misinterpreted the post of the the other.

Where would I have stated, or "lied" about public runs being smooth and effective? Where did I say that you've said that public servers are bad?

I wanted to say that the guys in a Rag Server who just reached level 39 have most of the time no idea what they should do on those servers. Then you have to teach them what they have to do like juggeling, healing or slashing and so on. And if you have like 5 "newcomers" in a Rag Server it just takes more time to tome and so on and that is a bit annoying for some guys when those guys do nothing and let things despawn.
I never wanted to say that you stated that out some time ago that public servers are bad in your opinion, sorry if you understood that like this.

I'm pretty sure that Hidden Cave is the only map at the moment in which the cading spot is out of range of the common ranged spot.
Again, I have never said that maps should not have the option to kite because people run out of range of the others. That is a discussion that might not be best suited for this topic= as it's just about someone being an arse. That does not necessarily mean that kiting is bad. But if you read through my previous posts, and those of others, you can see that that is only one of many points made about kiting.

Yes, at the moment Hidden Cave is the only map where the shielders do not get xp sometimes.
And I argue that some not so teamplay thinking guys are not the best players and we should argue about those guys here.
It is like Nka said, you should not use kiting for bad things like kill all guys out of range.

I'd like to point out on your last point, when you said that kiting is a different style of playing NI, and should therefor not be removed, that the existence of a certain style is not a reason to preserve it. I'll let you work that one out yourself.

I am just pointing out that most guys do not have that time to play a full Ragnarok Run which takes 2 hours and they still want to get some loots, so they want to kite. I am just saying that it would be very nice if some kiting maps would still be here as they are now and do not nerf them anymore.
I let you think about this one time what would happen if this game would only be kind of based on camping and cade on the maps, because some kind of a mix would keep this mod alive and get more players to this great mod. And let us forget at the moment that there is a cav server, because this is another great kind of this mod where you can improve your riding skills
Greets Tarrod

[darklit]

My personal opinion.

I love kiting. Its really fun to do when you wantto just play alone. Or if there are no deecent servers. But kiting does take skill. I have gotten to wave after vet pikes on normal, and assassins on hard. Im not the best at it. But im not even warden yet. All i know, is that in all my kiting time. I have mever gotten anything more than a maybe 3 HM at most. So i dont understand why people always say they get a ton of loot when they kite. But i assume its because im terrible at kiting.

If the nord invasion dev team could find a way to help people get deecent mats drops, without it making the game to easy, ide be ok with removing kiting to maximize the "team work" aspect of the game. I know that some people quit the game because they always here of people getting drops and legendaries. But they never gotten anything. So they just quit. And to be honest. It makes me angry also when i see people finding a lump, 2 arrow heads. And a WoG. In half a hard run. When i find nothing more than a rough cloth. Even though i do my part in the server kills wise.

I saw a very agreeable solution. A post a while ago about nord kill points cashable for mats. I would support this, or somthing similar. To make it both a random way to get drops, and a way to buy them or get them for getting a a certain amount of kills. This would also motivate leachers to stop leaching. Because they know they wont get drops if they dont kill. It would make it fair. Instead of the constant feeling like rich get richer. And poor get poorer. I have been playing this game for 2 years about. And have gotten 1 scale, 1 lump, and just some other basic mats. When other people find more than double that in 1 game.

I really look forward to the dev team fixin this issue if they see it as an issue.

[Slayer]

most servers start off with just a few people kitting before people bomb in to fill the rest of the server forming a run. taking away the incentive to kite will probably result in far less runs being attempted on public servers above normal mode. also I do not understand peoples passionate hate for kitting. it takes far more skill to kite than to play the boring shield wall tactic that is feed to us through a tube these days. furthermore, people in less popular geographic regions such as Asia pacific find it hard to get a team together in their time zones for a run...especially on public let alone an AU server. removing kitting for them is almost killing the game. i can understand the devs want us to make use of the shield wall tactic but for some people aforementioned, this is out of the question. there should always be one or two maps that accommodate kitting so as to stop people spam kitting all the maps but also to satisfy other peoples form of enjoyment in the game. people shouldn't be forced into playing a style that someone else wants them to play...it defeats the purpose of gaming.

Dat EU playerbase doe.

[Ass_Beater]

How do you expect to have a serious discussion with those poll choices?

I don't see the point in a "whine whine whine" poll option. But whatever. IMO kiting is fine, this mod has a small enough player base as it is, removing it kinda screws people over when not many people are on

[[ASSASSINE]]

How do you expect to have a serious discussion with those poll choices?

I don't see the point in a "whine whine whine" poll option. But whatever. IMO kiting is fine, this mod has a small enough player base as it is, removing it kinda screws people over when not many people are on

That option was added by a dev or moderator, not by me.

[The Cid]

link=topic=24687.msg178855#msg178855 date=1400327686]
[quote author=Ass_Beater link=topic=24687.msg178802#msg178802 date=1400310315]
How do you expect to have a serious discussion with those poll choices?

I don't see the point in a "whine whine whine" poll option. But whatever. IMO kiting is fine, this mod has a small enough player base as it is, removing it kinda screws people over when not many people are on

That option was added by a dev or moderator, not by me.
[/quote]

Just shows the devs have a anti kiting stance, dam shame