Solution to Ragnarok Support Items

[Sargent Q]

Field med kits are usable by tier 3 medic.

[Marius]

ye I vouch about the support

[Cryptic]

Field meds are tier 3 and also I would like to point out that if everyone brings in cades to rag. Who is going to stay alive during tomes? Also the idea behind the shc is nice but also not needed as lower tier support items are still useful. Maybe not as much as the shc (no where near) but it is still needed on some maps. Most people don't use the lower tier items granted but it is still nice to have them on occasion. I would not support this as many players already have tier 4 characters. To bring in another thing a lot of people don't focus on support until tier 4 from what I have seen I could be wrong saying that but it appears that way to me.

[Slayer]

Field meds are tier 3 and also I would like to point out that if everyone brings in cades to rag. Who is going to stay alive during tomes? Also the idea behind the shc is nice but also not needed as lower tier support items are still useful. Maybe not as much as the shc (no where near) but it is still needed on some maps. Most people don't use the lower tier items granted but it is still nice to have them on occasion. I would not support this as many players already have tier 4 characters. To bring in another thing a lot of people don't focus on support until tier 4 from what I have seen I could be wrong saying that but it appears that way to me.

You're telling me its better to have normal barricades over short heavy barricades. Ok.

Also the medics would stay alive, or 2 or 3 people who are bringing short heavies will stay alive, you can alocate, it's not that hard to communicate in a server.

[DrWhoCares]

link=topic=29850.msg190512#msg190512 date=1406809527]
[quote author=Vanguard_Yokmen link=topic=29850.msg190508#msg190508 date=1406808185]
I totally agree ; We have to make the rag runs more serious.
Soviet's idea is a good one. Raising the level requirement to 50 or 52, would make a Ragnarok with more experienced players.
That would also prevent the ( news ) Hard mod players to bring in only normal cades.

you wouldnt believe how often we have suggested/ asked for this
[/quote]

[Cryptic]

I get you can talk over servers but in a public run alot of the time people aren't listening and so on. I know many people make runs in ts. At the same time this is not always the case so telling people to stay alive is not always going to work. Also for the idea of medics staying alive, they may need things too.

[Tsukiyomi]

I fully support this idea.  Yes, it has been brought up a lot but I think that's because it is something that really needs to be looked at.  Simply put you are not going to have a successful Rag run without plenty of t4 support.  I personally am sick of playing in public rag runs and being one of 4 people with appropriate support items.  In response to "oh but you need people with lower level items" - you don't.  Normal barricades are absolutely useless on rag and even can hurt the team (I'm sure most people have seen the bots get on top of normals then climb right over the shc's).  Anyone with normals in fully equipped rag game is told not to die because their cade is useless.  I agree with the previous comments - either the level for rag needs to be lvl 50-52 or shc needs to be usable by t3 engineers giving people very little excuse not to own one by the time they are on rag. 

[clickeverywhere]

Thank you for making this topic= Slayer. I've suggested the same thing before and my position remains the same.

As for Cryptic's objections,

I would like to point out that if everyone brings in cades to rag. Who is going to stay alive during tomes?

If everyone were bringing in proper support, then we could choose who stayed alive rather than having to rely on the poor people/low levels/greedy/afk players who don't own support items to kill last or do the toming. That's also often the cause of wipes: poor team-players are left alive (since they bring nothing worth dying for or are semi-afk) to deal with the last bot or use the tome. They all die to last or a wraith spawns and wipes them because they have the reaction times of a centenarian. If other players brought in the SHC, then the players who would traditionally be dying every respawn/tome wave would not have to die. Crisis averted. And most of the medics you see on servers don't die for gear anyway. They just bring in their med box and drop it on the floor. No worries there.

Also the idea behind the shc is nice but also not needed as lower tier support items are still useful. Maybe not as much as the shc (no where near) but it is still needed on some maps. Most people don't use the lower tier items granted but it is still nice to have them on occasion.

Try doing Ragnarok with normal barricades + heavy barricades. And it's not as if moving SHC down to T3 support would deter players from bringing in heavy barricades if necessary.

I would not support this as many players already have tier 4 characters.

I don't see how that's relevant.

To bring in another thing a lot of people don't focus on support until tier 4 from what I have seen I could be wrong saying that but it appears that way to me.

This will serve as an incentive for them to get support earlier.

While we're on the topic= I think the devs should reevaluate the entire engineer progression. They could move normal barricades down to T1 engineer, and heavy barricades to T2 so that SHC can be moved to T3. Wall cades and barrels can remain T4 since they're luxury items. Dep shield x2 should be removed and dep shield x3 should be T1. Also, it'd be nice if small ammo crates were upped to 2 charges while large ammo crates were increased to 5 or something. If you go through a game spawning on every wave with a large ammo crate, you're going to get a total of 15 refills from spawning in large ammo crates. The amounts of assist XP per tier could use a looking at as well. 2500 assist xp at level 7 is huge. It could use some reduction to encourage more support use at earlier levels.

EDIT: And to add to Tsuki's post, I always tell players bringing normal cades to Rag runs to swap to small ammo crates (especially on maps like Swadian Castle). That's how useless normal cades are on Rag. A crappy single use refill is worth more than a cade that's just going to be allowed to despawn.

[Sargent Q]

I agree with what is being said.  I do think it needs to be added that it would very hard for a new player to get a SHC at tier 3.  But like Click said if we had more people bringing in SHC than someone who can deal with a wraith or last can stay alive and have to worry less about wiping because the 4 people you left alive couldn't deal with a wraith.

[Suns]

+1

The only thing I disagree on is the cap for Rag runs going to lvl 50/52. After 45 or so, it takes 1-3 Hard runs just to advance to the next level. I would suggest moving the cap to lvl 45 and up, but thats just solely my opinion.