Pikeman vs Commando

[BigBird]

Commandos are better than Pikeman.

Commandos

• Can have more powerstrike
  
• Have better armour
  
• Have less speed
  
• Can get better weapons
  

Pikeman

• Less powerstrike 
  
• Lowest armour of any class
  
• Fastest of any class
  
• Gets worse weapons
  

I will cover some of these points in more depth.

Powerstrike

Commando's can have 8 powerstrike if they get Militia and Crossbowman. The max powerstrike a Pikeman can get is 7.

Armour

Commando's have far better armour (at the cost of weight, so this links in with speed which I will talk about later.) Transitional giving 70 body armour and 31 leg armour. The best current pikeman armour gives 32 body 18 leg.

Speed

Commando's have less athletics and heavier armour than pikeman, but what does this mean? Well it means it cannot solo as well as the Pikeman but Nord Invasion is not about soloing and the metagame of Nord Invasion at the moment consists of slashers (Who stand still and slash), shielders and ranged. I didn't mention healers and builders because any class can forfull those roles.

Roles

But "BigBird" you might say, "Pikeman can be ranged or slashers!", well thats right Timmy but Commando's can be slashers or shielders.

Weapons

Now onto the weapons, I will be talking about the "slashing" category of weapons available to both classes.

Spoiler

Commando's get:
Ancient Greatsword
Swing Damage: 60 cut
Thrust Damage: 42 pierce
Length: 152
Speed: 91

Volundr Greatsword
Swing Damage: 62 cut
Thrust Damage: 42 pierce
Length: 135
Speed: 95

Spoiler

Pikeman get:
Sunpike
Swing Damage: 52 cut
Thrust Damage: 42 pierce
Length: 180
Speed: 88

Thunder Pike
Swing Damage: 48 cut
Thrust Damage: 42 pierce
Length: 200
Speed: 88

Dragon Halberd
Swing Damage: 52 cut
Thrust Damage: 42 pierce
Length: 162
Speed: 94

Snake Halberd
Swing Damage: 55 cut
Thrust Damage: 35 pierce
Length: 156
Speed: 92

Swadian Halberd (Done off the top of my head)
Swing Damage: 60 cut
Thrust damage: ?
Length 18x
speed: 88

I am unsure whether to include the pike of kings as I am not sure whether it is obtainable (However stabs are far less efficient for slashers as if they get blocked they will be stunned longer)

First of all lets look within pikeman's own weapons, why is the swadian halberd the highest cut out of all the above weapons when it's not even a legendary. Surely something that is much rarer should be better?

Now apart from the swadian Halberd the commando's weapons outshine all pikeman weapons by 5 or more cut (Don't forget those commando's can also get 1 more powerstrike.) I will mention however that the polearm overhead does go through teammates which is a bonus, but making a small gap in the shield wall allows two handers to clean up just as well.

So overall the Commando's can deal more damage, take more damage and get better weapons all at the cost of being slow which for Nord Invasion's current teamwork means nothing.

Discuss, but I think its clear that Pikeman are in need of a buff.

[BP]

Nice post there BB hope u get the buff!

[AEF_Dongal]

Timmy thinks Crossbowman need buffs, more athletics for example DONT HURT TIMMY

[OneEyE]

I have a commando and Pikeman atm for testing both.
Slasher compare (no solo ability):

Commando:
- weak Slasher weapons
- only Ancient Greatsword, Volundr Greatsword, Sunpike are good but not able to find with this current small drop rate
- you need a gab in the shieldwall
+ 8 PS
+ can switch to Shielder
+ best armor
+ most one handed skill
+ most two handed skill

Pikeman:
+ huge choice of good weapons (polearms), one of my favorit weapons is the swadian halbert
+ most Polearm skill
+ Polearm weapons can ignore Shielder, no gab needed
-  no really good new legendary slasher weapons (Pike of Kings not able to find)
-  only 7 PS
- cant switch to defence (to weak)
- weak armor

If you look at the events, you can see there not many Pikeman outside. The reason are clear i think. If i would find a Ancient Greatsword, Volundr Greatsword or a Sunpike for my commando, i would respec my Pikeman to a other class. I think a small damage buff for the pikeman would be better, to make him to the damage dealer he has to be.

[Senni]

Pikemans not pure melee, There partly range too. He has the added advantage of throwing, some of which (the legendary ones) can do considerable damage.

[BigBird]

Pikemans not pure melee, There partly range too. He has the added advantage of throwing, some of which (the legendary ones) can do considerable damage.

I broke up NI's teamwork into 3 main roles, yes Pikeman can also throw but Commando's can also shield. This thread mainly focuses on the slasher part of a Pikeman however.

[clickeverywhere]

I think the problem with the new classes are that they are supposed to be a combination of melee and ranged, thus they excel in neither. What happens with this is that in teamwork situations, you want the best of each category, which would be commandos and snipers. This effectively makes it so that pikemen and crossbowmen are not necessary in team games.

[Senni]

If they gave pikemen 1 more powerstrike and more wpf, it could be the glass cannon of the melee world.

At the moment, a lvl 52 commando will have more wpf in 2h than the pikeman does in polearms, and 1 more powerstrike.

[AEF_Dongal]

32 armor is abit low, compared to the other 'hybrid', the crossbowman, which has 50. Maybe buff skirm armor to 40, 1 more PS (and give crossbowman 1 more athletics )


Totally not trying to hijack this thread ....

[BigBird]

I think the problem with the new classes are that they are supposed to be a combination of melee and ranged, thus they excel in neither. What happens with this is that in teamwork situations, you want the best of each category, which would be commandos and snipers. This effectively makes it so that pikemen and crossbowmen are not necessary in team games.

What I was essentially saying was with the roles was that although commando's don't get some form of ranged they are the best at two categories currently, slashing + shielding whilst pikeman are the second best slashers and 3rd best ranged? I think like said above pikeman could become glass cannons because at the moment they're all glass and no cannon  ???