In Regurds to Map Changes

[DR.]

Some people have fun by doing things differently for me trading is just about half the game 1/4 events other is kiting/being someone that the team needs to do the run.

Pick your favorite map right now if the bots were closer making maps faster is that such a bad thing to want? It not like this is helping 1 person it helping all people that play get maps done faster  

Yes seeing into spawn is op but vs not needing cades till wave 12 rag well idk if it that op

Spoiler

Not sure what the maps called so got a screenshot of it ty xbow event ( killed odin in less than 10sec no barrels not even joking)

[Image: 12C76D8CE925098B19C65A7A83F9C828A7815CD6]

---

This game is harder when it less time between seeing the bot and it being at the cades i would say. Maps can do some things like how much people can shot etc but if we were like in there spawn almost that would be one of the hardest maps but be very fast i would think.

just a idea i just had we can almost do it with some maps but it would take a lot of set up as we spawn so far away most of the time.

[Lirania]

Some people have fun by doing things differently for me trading is just about half the game 1/4 events other is kiting/being someone that the team needs to do the run.

Pick your favorite map right now if the bots were closer making maps faster is that such a bad thing to want? It not like this is helping 1 person it helping all people that play get maps done faster  

Yes seeing into spawn is op but vs not needing cades till wave 12 rag well idk if it that op

Spoiler

Not sure what the maps called so got a screenshot of it ty xbow event ( killed odin in less than 10sec no barrels not even joking)

[Image: 12C76D8CE925098B19C65A7A83F9C828A7815CD6]

---

This game is harder when it less time between seeing the bot and it being at the cades i would say. Maps can do some things like how much people can shot etc but if we were like in there spawn almost that would be one of the hardest maps but be very fast i would think.

just a idea i just had we can almost do it with some maps but it would take a lot of set up as we spawn so far away most of the time.

Thats Swadian Temple.Should be.

[Midren]

Some people have fun by doing things differently for me trading is just about half the game 1/4 events other is kiting/being someone that the team needs to do the run.

Pick your favorite map right now if the bots were closer making maps faster is that such a bad thing to want? It not like this is helping 1 person it helping all people that play get maps done faster  

Yes seeing into spawn is op but vs not needing cades till wave 12 rag well idk if it that op

Spoiler

Not sure what the maps called so got a screenshot of it ty xbow event ( killed odin in less than 10sec no barrels not even joking)

[Image: 12C76D8CE925098B19C65A7A83F9C828A7815CD6]

---

This game is harder when it less time between seeing the bot and it being at the cades i would say. Maps can do some things like how much people can shot etc but if we were like in there spawn almost that would be one of the hardest maps but be very fast i would think.

just a idea i just had we can almost do it with some maps but it would take a lot of set up as we spawn so far away most of the time.

Last time I'm gonna say this, Its not about the maps being too fast.... its about them being too easy, the speed of a map can be as fast as possible, that's fine, but the goal is to have teams actually having to play the game, and pay attention to what is going on, rather than having teams where only half the team plays and the other half is tabbed out, or goofing off in the base and not needing to contribute to the team.

[DR.]

"teams where only half the team plays"

Dont think im wrong by saying this but any map can be like that when you have a event and good players are at the top of the scoreboard.

[Sargent Q]

"teams where only half the team plays"

Dont think im wrong by saying this but any map can be like that when you have a event and good players are at the top of the scoreboard.

Incorrect. I play almost all maps at my events, and there are very very few like that. Even something as easy as Coastal Raid fails if people aren't actually playing.

[Bobo]

(...) the goal is to have teams actually having to play the game, and pay attention to what is going on, rather than having teams where only half the team plays (...)

Agreed. In regard to the above I'd wish to add the cadeing spot should be made the way that allows enough number of players to position themselves. To give an instance: at Frosthaven something like 10 players can actively engage enemy, there are no spot for others, the galley is just tight... So there are indeed ppl just standing and watching 'cause they can't find themselves a job to do.

PS. ofc if there'd be a team with 6 shielders they might make a nice long shieldwall and there'd be slashing spot for everyone. The trouble is a team usually doesn't consist of that many shielding capable players.

[DR.]

"teams where only half the team plays"

Dont think im wrong by saying this but any map can be like that when you have a event and good players are at the top of the scoreboard.

Incorrect.  I play almost all maps at my events,  and there are very very few like that.  Even something as easy as Coastal Raid fails if people aren't actually playing.

Maybe because in your events you would kick people that go semi afk/dont try? Just did a lot of rag/hard runs just my point the top 5 people just about have more kills than the rest and in public there are  even people that semi afk end up with 10-20 kills that make it even more apparent. 

On any map you can be carried. The only time i seen a scoreboard with even kills almost is the xbow event as it was a even playing field. Other than player skill,class and spot there were almost no difference.

Play style should be up to the house of the event to decide if your not happy with it don't join. The fact that i'm not alone with wanting a map that fast (does not need to be easy) should be a thing then.

Spoiler

[Image: 6F74FB86EFB2DD5E5ECEE481391F534F445FB6AC]

All im asking for is a cade spot here for eg it would not be easy at all as the ranged dont get to shoot before the shields get hit. (windows or a walkway so ranged could shoot over the wall even if it means we need plats) I really don't think this is a game breaker i think even that example is a bit extreme of my idea.

Most of the time we can't try things like this as it so far from spawn as well. When i was in LoC that was the thing for us find some stupid place to cade that was close so the game would be over so slayer could play rift... It end up working on some maps even lol it was a lot harder but still fast.

---

(...) the goal is to have teams actually having to play the game, and pay attention to what is going on, rather than having teams where only half the team plays (...)

Agreed. In regard to the above I'd wish to add the cadeing spot should be made the way that allows enough number of players to position themselves. To give an instance: at Frosthaven something like 10 players can actively engage enemy, there are no spot for others, the galley is just tight... So there are indeed ppl just standing and watching 'cause they can't find themselves a job to do.

PS. ofc if there'd be a team with 6 shielders they might make a nice long shieldwall and there'd be slashing spot for everyone. The trouble is a team usually doesn't consist of that many shielding capable players.

Im liking Frosthaven more as it one of the only maps that a plat very wanted as a shc is not as big/easy to get on but yes change would be nice to see. and it not just Frosthaven that like i think.

[Sargent Q]

"teams where only half the team plays"

Dont think im wrong by saying this but any map can be like that when you have a event and good players are at the top of the scoreboard.

Incorrect.  I play almost all maps at my events,  and there are very very few like that.  Even something as easy as Coastal Raid fails if people aren't actually playing.

Maybe because in your events you would kick people that go semi afk/dont try? Just did a lot of rag/hard runs just my point the top 5 people just about have more kills than the rest and in public there are  even people that semi afk end up with 10-20 kills that make it even more apparent. 

On any map you can be carried. The only time i seen a scoreboard with even kills almost is the xbow event as it was a even playing field. Other than player skill,class and spot there were almost no difference.

And the difference in scoreboard happens at my events as well. Normally there are 2 or 3 people at the top and the rest are quite a bit further down. However, I play maps that require people to actually be there helping even if they aren't getting Hundreds of kills. Slashers are still needed to be active. Unlike Castleyard was where I could count on the fingers of 1 hand the amount of times that i was actually needed to slash.

That there is the difference. You need team coordination to be able to win on Coastal Raid for Example. Not the mindless Zombie type playing that happens on maps like Castleyard, or Graubergin were.

I am not saying make every map bad. I am saying make every map actually need support from both types of damage to win easily.

[Winter]

Unlike Castleyard was where I could count on the fingers of 1 hand the amount of times that i was actually needed to slash.  

Wave 6, 8, 12, 14, 16, 17, 19, 20

Q confirmed to have 6 fingers.



In all honesty, though, his argument is accurate. Maps where slashers can be AFK most of the time and make no difference are not maps we want in rotation, not just because they are too fast or too easy, but because they are utterly boring for whatever portion of the team isn't constantly active. Maps that have 3-4 slashing spots and 2 shielders means anyone else that isn't ranged is kind of screwed over unless they are ready to have "fun" being the dedicated healer for the rest of the game.

If the argument is that people will always find the fastest maps, then I don't see what the issue with changing one of the fastest maps is, since you'll just find a new one. If anything that is good, because it gives you reason to try other maps, especially the other ones recently changed, and find even faster ones. The fact that a map reaches the point where it is so fast that it warrants changes like this is a testament to this. How many times has this happened? I lost count a long time ago, but that may just be because I'm stupid. The maps are always evolving, sometimes easier, faster, harder, slower, or any combination. The fact that we have active mappers that are willing to make changes at all is fantastic. How many games out there can boast of having their maps updated regularly to change up gameplay so significantly?

Then there are the people that just want a click fest so they can rack up numbers to brag to their friends about. Perhaps this game is more your type

EDIT: MIDREN IT IS "REGARDS" PLEASE FIX IT :U

[Bobo]

(...) Maps where slashers can be AFK most of the time and make no difference are not maps we want in rotation, not just because they are too fast or too easy, but because they are utterly boring for whatever portion of the team isn't constantly active.  (...)

That, very much.
Also: Q is right about the old Castleyard, shielders and slashers used to get a bit sleepy during the gameplay, with the Wardens spamming arrows that dimmed the sun and massacred enemies halfway down the bridge.

PS. fortunatelly when things go too easy in your event on your favourite easy map you can always count on Winter to drop in and beef it up. Thanks for Wednesday