Official Feedback - Number of Waves [Implemented]

[Kip]

Thanks for the feedback. This has been implemented in 1.3.0. Here is the rest of the thread for archival purposes.

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Hello everyone,

We would like to get your opinion about a fundamental change to game which we have been considering.

The question:
How many waves should each run of NordInvasion have?

Potential answers:

• 20 waves
  
• 16 waves
  
• 12 waves
  
• Different waves per mode (I think that would be too inconsistent.)
  

Reasons to change:

• Not everyone has a lot of time to invest in a run.  Fewer waves means people with less time could still play.
  
• Those with plenty of time to play could complete multiple runs so (in my opinion) there will be no negative affect to them.
  
• Fewer waves means we could increase the difficulty of the remaining waves in Ragnarok for example without increasing the total time needed.  (The time saved by fewer waves would compensate the extra time needed to kill harder waves.)
  
• More maps could get play time.
  
• More differentiation between modes - fewer overlapping Nords.
  
• More alternate waves.
  

Reasons not to change:

• Tradition: NordInvasion has always been this way.  Why change now?
  
• If the structure of each wave stays the same, there will be fewer types of Nords in the run.  (I would counter that we could change up the random waves and add more alternate waves.  Perhaps less variety in one run but more variety between runs.)
  

Please refrain from wandering off to other ideas.  The purpose of this thread is to discuss this one concept.

What do you think?

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Other considerations raised in the thread: (not so much for discussion here but they are related)
Spawn waves could be every three waves: Random, Challenge, Boss [spawn]

[Ribbed]

12 waves, but I don't think normal should be made anymore difficult without the level restriction on beginner being removed or increased.

[Kip]

12 waves, but I don't think normal should be made anymore difficult without the level restriction on beginner being removed or increased.

I'm pretty happy with the difficulty of Normal as it is. The only changes I might consider making are the first few waves since we now have Beginner mode for new players to start out with. That is not yet a serious consideration though - maybe later.

[Ribbed]

12 waves, but I don't think normal should be made anymore difficult without the level restriction on beginner being removed or increased.

I'm pretty happy with the difficulty of Normal as it is.  The only changes I might consider making are the first few waves since we now have Beginner mode for new players to start out with.  That is not yet a serious consideration though - maybe later.

Well if respawn remains every 4 waves that in itself is increasing the difficulty by reducing support.

[Kip]

Well if respawn remains every 4 waves that in itself is increasing the difficulty by reducing support.

This leads into a closely linked idea which might get a thread of its own if there is much disagreement:

Spawn waves every three waves.
- Random wave
- Challenge wave
- Boss wave [spawn at end]

I was going to hold that for another separate thread to keep the discussion focused but you do raise a good reason to throw it out there now. I'd still like the primary focus to be on the number of waves and if that idea is accepted, we can then move forward to discuss the spawn waves.

[GheerBox]

I would prefer fewer waves provided that fewer waves would not cripple someone ability to get loot/gold. I would benefit greatly from reduced run times because I can only play for maybe 1-2 hours in an evening, but that already limits my ability to grind out levels/loot. I wouldn't want to enjoy playing the game more, but have to play even more to get the same loot.

I feel I have done a terrible job articulating my thoughts, but I hope that makes sense.

[Kip]

I would prefer fewer waves provided that fewer waves would not cripple someone ability to get loot/gold.

That is an interesting point. I think having shorter runs would not cause fewer drops if you play for the same amount of time. We will certainly keep that in mind though if we go forward with this.

[DR.]

Beginner: Maybe 12w as half of the waves feel the same even as red shirt. 
Normal: Maybe 16w and get rid of w 3,7,9,15 as there so much like there -2 wave.
Hard: I would keep it at 20w or maybe 18
Rag: People may hate me but 24w+ i would like to see or making it harder like you said.

Cav it takes so long lol. Maybe 16w 
or
Decrease bot numbers even more on the higher waves
or
Lower the heath on all horses so we all go down faster.

[Kip]

Beginner: Maybe 12w as half of the waves feel the same even as red shirt. 
Normal: Maybe 16w and get rid of w 3,7,9,15 as there so much like there -2 wave.
Hard: I would keep it at 20w or maybe 18
Rag: People may hate me but 24w+ i would like to see or making it harder like you said.

Cav it takes so long lol. Maybe 16w 
or
Decrease bot numbers even more on the higher waves
or
Lower the heath on all horses so we all go down faster.

Beginner mode definitely needs a revamp.  We sort of ran out of ideas for new Nords which is why so many Normal bots are in there.  One advantage to fewer waves is we could take some of the Nords from Normal and give them to Beginner and keep most of the Normal bots where they are.  (In other words, cut back on some of the overlap.)

I also agree with the random waves being quite similar in some places.

Personally, I disagree with having so many Nords on Ragnarok.  I would much rather see the waves which remain end up being harder (which would in turn take longer).  This is probably the point which will require the most discussion.

Much of what you mentioned about Cavalry is already in consideration.  Cav will be getting attention soon but we wanted to settle the number of waves first because that will affect how the Nords get balanced.

[Fergus]

I like the idea of fewer waves on some of the difficulties, such as, beginner and normal. Having say 12 or 14 waves on beginner would allow for a new player to not get overwhelmed with the commitment of 20 waves along with would not have to survive as much. While on normal, having the same number of waves (12 and 14) would allow for all of us who ever so love grinding to get runs done quicker. To be honestly with you on normal if you just take out the first few super easy waves then I think normal would be a lot better. You don't lose any real difficulty just shorten the time it takes to complete a run. But when it comes to Hard and ragnork I think taking away the total number of runs could damage the difficulty of it all, during those runs its a fight to survive each wave, so by taking away a few waves you ultimately just save us from possible death for a few waves. All in all, I say make the things intended to be easy easy, and things intended to be hard hard. While with normal you help people save time.