Zweihander VS Sentry

[Ken_Repeaterman]

With regret, I again today saw the Sentry began to slash. And all would be nothing if not power strike 8 and good swords for Sentry. I believe that it is necessary to increase the possession of shields to 10 and possession of crossbows + 350, well, Power throw 10. Because they are not so strong

I'm joking. I think that power strike Sentry should not be above 7 because otherwise he ceases to use the bow and turns into zweihander. And thus humiliates the dignity of zweihander, because it can replace not only the usual infantry T5, but also an Archer. Whenever sentry is cutting, he literally shouts, " Zweihander-you s*ck"

Can there be a revised power strike and the Sentry is lowered to 6-7?
And power strike zweihander boost to 9? To make it desirable

P.M: Let me remind you that I have no Zweihander, I'm just outraged by the Archer's superiority in zweihander's specialty

[Leandero]

The zweihander has access to swords doing more damage and that have more reach. Also while the sentry can slash having low armour kinda hurts the purpose. You are more likely to be one hit as Sentry while slashing than as Zwei. The Juggernaut is more competition for the Zwei as the powerstrike is the same but the Juggernaut can take a bigger punishment and is less likely to be oneshot than the Zwei.

Ranged combat wise the Warden does better than the Sentry damage wise and fire rate wise when they use the same bow, nothing wrong with that. Pikemen and Crossbowmen with the right gear can compete with archers well... Since the fire rate nerf of all bows i sometimes can barely get a shot in when there are many pikemen using throwing daggers or crossbowmen with repeater crossbows.

This comes from a player having all available heroes in NI, haven't played them all as much but I have played them all

[DR.]

The stats of Zwei and its stuff are almost perfect I would say. 

The only change I would be happy with is if the 2h skill got a buff but with that, the 1h skill got a nerf. With this same concept with Leg buff 1h nerf 2h.

To point out why sentry should stay the same or could even do with a buff in some area's is to compare it to Mara or even Hoplite. Sentry is the pinnacle of a glass cannon in Ni having the lowest armour out of all 16 heroes but unlike Warden, its class is not meant for ranged it meant to be on the battlefield (in some cases). Even then its a 2h, not a 1h so you depend on others to be your shield.

[Pavel]

Hahaha Zweihander is the most useless class right now. Unless you own a Legacy or a Durrendal or something similar that is, and even then you're much better off slashing as Juggernaut who is noticeably tougher.
P.S. Not to mention the lightning fast overhead piercing-damage thrusts of a hoplite

[Unknown_Soldier]

Zwei also has 20 more prof, which is good for 2%more damage/speed. Which helps out a bit, not to mention not as fragile. Sentry has good 2h for oh shit moments, like when 2 sneak by cades they can quickly kill them. They arent meant to be slashers in my opinion.

[Count_Lucas]

While I am someone who does slash on their Sentry a decent bit, its not to make fun of Zwei, I personally do it cause its a option and a good kill fodder so I can more easily finish some quests on my Sentry, and because sometimes there is no slashers and there is desperately some needed at times. There wouldn't be a huge point in lowering the power strike of a sentry, considering what has already been stated that yeah a Sentry can die like their armor is made out of paper so that perfectly is enough of a warning to any Sentries about the dangers of slashing of course and enough of a balance, not like there is a huge amount of people that even remotely play Sentry, be a waste of time to nerf a class like that, that'd be like saying Sentinel may as well get a power strike nerf too since they can also hit hard in melee but I'd be crazy to say that, obviously. Course I won't agree to this wanted nerf since I have a blast being able to have 2 options on Sentry, I don't want one option ruined completely. Again though this is my personal thoughts and options and a tiny bit of fact and I can not speak for everyone of course.

Have a good day, from Lucas

[Pavel]

Sentry's armour is made of paper? Zwei's armour must be made of double the layers of paper then, since he can survive one or two(?) at most more hits. Woody, Zweihander is also a 2h-based hero and also needs to have a shield in front of him in order to be effective. If fighting without one he will last as long a Sentry or any other class...

The fact is that recent class-design choices have made Zweihander almost obsolete - Juggernaut can slash as well and can take more punishment (which basically forces him to use a two-hander since more armour is needed when not using a shield), Legioannaire can also slash as well but can also throw, Sentry can also slash as well but is also an archer, etc. If anyone thinks otherwise, try getting rid of your high-tier and legendary gear and start playing as a Zwei from scratch - see how well he performs then. Even with mid-tier craftables he is outperformed by other classes with the same level of gear, simply because they can do what he does but also more.

Anyway, I have nothing personal on anyone, and I still greatly enjoy the game despite what I said

[DR.]

Sentry's armour is made of paper? Zwei's armour must be made of double the layers of paper then, since he can survive one or two(?) at most more hits. Woody, Zweihander is also a 2h-based hero and also needs to have a shield in front of him in order to be effective. If fighting without one he will last as long a Sentry or any other class...

I don't know but for my zwei it has some shield skill. Zwei has access to shields/hammers/better 1hs not to add zweis stats give it more hp and more damage. Armor in this game makes not much of a difference in rag I will give it that but don't pretend that normal and even hard don't exist.

The fact is that recent class-design choices have made Zweihander almost obsolete - Juggernaut can slash as well and can take more punishment (which basically forces him to use a two-hander since more armour is needed when not using a shield), Legioannaire can also slash as well but can also throw, Sentry can also slash as well but is also an archer, etc. If anyone thinks otherwise, try getting rid of your high-tier and legendary gear and start playing as a Zwei from scratch - see how well he performs then. Even with mid-tier craftables he is outperformed by other classes with the same level of gear, simply because they can do what he does but also more.

Anyway, I have nothing personal on anyone, and I still greatly enjoy the game despite what I said

Zwei was my 1st hero so don't think I need to do that. hmm... Total 5,399,472 xp

So do you have a sentry or is this just using your eyes and guessing that sentry makes zwei redundant?

[Pavel]

Woody,

Normal mode, yes. But the situation in most of Hard is still similar to Ragnarok (wave 6/9 and above) - you'll still die in a couple of hits. And yes, Zweihander can use 1h weapons and shields which is one reason why I prefer it over Sentry.

And yes, I've played a Sentry, and the slashing potential was the reason why I enjoyed it. Swapped back to Zwei as I simply prefer a full-on infantry class(like the 1h and shield thing above). This is actually making me think of my legionnaire character who I was using mainly to slash, and sometimes shield and throw.

And again , I'm sure you have a lot of experience as a Zwei and also probably posses very high tier gear. My point was that when using lower tier gear it's sometimes a struggle to keep doing what a Zwei is meant to be doing in the face of all the other classes around who are just as good at doing it. Often it's down to individual players (like Lucas yesterday) to see that there isn't much else a Zwei can do (other than heal I guess) and to give the slashing spot to him, while they use their other weapon they are just as proficient at (bow, thrown). I guess Juggernaut is the only class that's not able to do that, as he is basically forced to use the same weapons as a Zwei (see my previous response above).

Anyway, that's my personal experience and view on this, and I don't​ expect many people to agree as I am well aware that gearing up a new character from scratch takes ages and there's most probably no need to do it in order to see my point

Take care

EDIT: Just to add - I hope it doesn't look like (even though it does) I'm whining for a Zwei buff, as I don't see how this would make it any better. Lower tier Zweis would probably greatly benefit from it but I can see how overpowered the combination of high tier Zweis and RGs might get.

[DR.]

I may be in the 1% of the 1% atm but unlike people that buy gear or get a lot of gear gifted I have worked my way up just as slowly or even slower than most.

It maybe is very hard to see but most active users will already now that I have hours on my loots (the joke being i've looted so much you don't need to see it anymore) 

I can tell you it took 3.5k hours for my 1st loot and at that time I had 75-100m of gear.  I'm aware of using low/avg tr gear and if anything playing atm is a lot easier than "back in my day"

To move it back to the topic... These 2 classes are the same in general goal of slashing away with a 2h but play style is a factor. Sentry is a back up for the Zwei.
Having a bigger toolkit that covers the role of slasher does seem like it would be classed as OP but its at the cost of having lower stats and a toolkit that it can't use all at once like Zwei.