whai

[Hypernoma]

This is Nord Invasion , not Strange Invasion or Strange Resistance.

Leave the Weebo stuff in Weeboland. Longbow on horse back is obviously OP and to make game fair and even, only first tier (maybe also 2nd tier?) should be usable on horseback. Try playing with HA and see how boring it is to watch him for 25-30 minutes clearing waves while you wait. And then you die right away because you obviously don't belong past wave 5th and watch him play again. People poll, people quit, etc. This is teamwork game , not "try your best , die trying, and watch the HA getting easy kills".

And Rangers aren't much of a threat to be honest, they can be killed quiet easily from the start when they spawn and be picked one after the other and then evade throwing axes for a few minutes, then you're all set for a long time of shooting shields, legs , and heads when lucky. Shrine , return , continue, and on and on and on.

People leave the server and go play on the only other available hard mode , just to find out another HA is doing this ? Shame !

+1 'nuff said.

[Ethaor]

Archers are overpowered now? NERF CAV! NERF ARCHERS! NERF COMMANDOS I'VE SEEN ONE KILLING TWO NORDS IN A ROW!

Playing as a foot archer i can tell you that i don't feel overpowered one bit in hard mode given the number of fast closing enemies, other ranges and the rest being heavy shielded and asks for several HS through their defense to die. I end up relying on my team mates and am only as useful as they allow me to be by aggroing and defending me. I don't see how i could ever solo Hard mode till wave 7 or 8 by myself and I doubt any archer could. Given how hard it can be to HS enemies now (awkward movement behavior, better shield coverage, enemy range threat, etc.), given how many HS is needed for an enemy to fall and considering my lifespan drastically is reduced to like 5 seconds when any enemy get close I really don't see how a foot archer could solo better than a Commando or Knight.

You're talking about archer kiting issues, like hit & run (which is btw a viable and logical archer tactic) as if it was an unfair advantage over other classes. Well it's not. Every class as its pros and cons, you can't just take a pros from a class and compare it to another without talking about the cons, it's just silly, no offense. Archers have poor armors, and "real" range players gotta drop the melee to wear a reasonable amount of arrows making them totally and utterly useless at close quarter combat but that way they don't have to waste precious range dps for the team by refilling every couple of waves. They barely (do they even?) run faster than plated armored Commandos/knights and their damage output is, let's be honest a second, a joke unless they hit the head (and that's what every archer tries to do at all time).

That said, foot archers can't hit & run properly anyway, if they can it's only because a team mate is holding the enemy off for the archer to survive another day. If archers could run twice as fast as the enemy then sure that would be a real hit&run but as of now only horses can do that, hence the needed nerf. Archers can't  backpedal considering the accuracy drop when moving, Commandos can, you don't see screaming all over the place how OP they are over me, cause sure they can backpedal, deal incredible dmg and tank five times better than me, but they have to get close and most importantly they protect me.

Knights are masters of the hit&run, its what they do, its why they survive, it's why it's nerfed, but their dmg output ain't incredible at all, they ain't killing dozens of enemies a second, it's just the AI can't deal with the horse kiting so the player survive so everyone think they're OP.

The most effective class in Hard mode IS the Commando, if you doubt that well, pay attention next time you have a few rounds at hard mode what classes really help your team survive, archers is just a support class. Commando isn't under powered.

Mounted war bow shouldn't even be discussed, its plain OP and it's obvious.

The problem with the horses in general is and always will be then AI. Game mechanics has been built thinking a horse was meant to be charged into enemy line, not kite indefinitely. You didn't see Knights running around a group of enemies, trying to, in a shy manner, lance an enemy and be the most possible cautious about it. They just charged and endured the melee. That's the problem with many games, you can't fix player's behavior, no one want to take one for the team.

I know I'd love to see a proper lined charge of 5 or 6 full plated players on war horses into the enemy lines and see what happens.  If that courageous and incredibly well coordinated team effort cavalry charge would just get the heroes killed bringing with them only a handful of enemies then in my mind it means the game ain't balanced and it has to be addressed, meaning you can't blame players for misusing horses. If on the other hand it works and the enemy suffers heavy losses vs reasonable death on the player's side, then it's the players fault for not using effective team strategies just because they don't want to be the one risking their lives.

It's all about team work, if team work ain't rewarding, handsomely, then there's a major flaw in the design and it really should be adressed.

[Helgi]

This is Nord Invasion , not Strange Invasion or Strange Resistance.

Leave the Weebo stuff in Weeboland.

If you can convince Click to lend you my sunpike, then you're all set

You are smarter then I am. I yield...

[Straws]

I support the nerfing of cavalry in all forms within nord invasion.

Others may disagree with me and i welcome your views however i'm of the opinion that out of all the classes cavalry is the one that lends itself more to not playing as a team.

There are exceptions to this obviously, occasionally you will get a really good cav player who knows he is part of a team and so can kite properly, leading large groups of enemies away and then letting them trickle away to be killed by the the rest of the team. In my experience these people are the exception rather than the rule however. (although ive seen people like lord hande do this quite well)

basically I think that too many cav players are essentially rambo's who, as conq says, can last far too long on their own through simply running away (and buggering off. get the reference? )

polite rebuttals of this please.

thanks.

So you believe cavalry can take on a large portion of the enemy team due to their mobility, correct? This is entirely true, at least in the early waves. Cavalry have mobility on their side, that is also true. What we don't have on our side is defence. As soon as a couple of good ranged units appear on the field, we simply cannot afford to continue ramboing (not that we should be doing this in the first place as it is very selfish and harmful to the team) as ranged units mostly deny mobility and pierce damage ignores armour to an extent. At this point we have to rely on the team to deal with the archers (counter sniping them or shield advancing). A way cavalry can help the team defeat the archers is to herd/kite the enemy infantry.

The 'teamwork' orientated cavalry does 1 of 2 things. They can either kite the Nords, or they can pick off small groups as the main one advances towards the Swadian archer/infantry line.

Option 1, herding the axe-wielding sheep:
Cavalry kitting NPC's around doesn't allow them to use their greatest ally (on a personal scale) - speed; they cannot use it because it requires a run up, which cannot/should not be attempted because then the Nord mob will just turn to the next closet target. This greatly slows Cavalry's progress up the class tree (I'll get to that in a second). Depending on how the AI chooses to work and break off, as well as the size of the mob, cavalry might not get much assist exp due to the distance. We already suffer from the lowest conversion rate of assist exp and at least at the early tiers we also suffer from the highest required experience to move up in the class tree. This makes kiting a good method for cavalry to help the team out and win the round, but this is a horrible one to actually gain experience themselves.

Option 2, eating the children:
Going for the smaller groups allows cavalry to do damage to the Nords without putting themselves in too much danger. The cavalry player is doing something quite similar to an archer at this point; they are thinning the horde so infantry have an easier time when the axes come crashing down on them.

I support the nerfing of cavalry in all forms within nord invasion.

This is the comment that really got to me. I'd just like to know more about why your opinion is that way. I realise cavalry can be quite powerful in the early rounds (see: hog every single NPC and kill them as they spawn without giving your team a chance to kill them and/or pulling the Swadians out of position), but I think your comment is pretty extreme.
Edit: Two ways mappers have combated this is to spread the spawns out (Beach and Village especially) and make the spawns death zones for cav (water and hills).

I know Jez has stated multiple times that cavalry is meant to be the difficult class, but doing option 1 as a leveling choice makes the game excruciatingly slow for cavalry to level up.

Last minute edit:
I almost forget to mention HA even once. Woops. I haven't had much experience with HA's but I'd say that they probably needed a nerf (sorry Dan). Having a pony means you are still quite mobile, but you cannot attack while being mobile, which I think was needed.

Every class as its pros and cons,

Also this ^


P.S.
I herd for the team when there are hard melee waves (I.E. Zweihanders) and cav waves (if I can) or when I feel I am being a kill hog. I always try to bring the enemies closer to the Swadian bulk before heavily engaging (I might pick off a couple here and there, only a couple).
Yes I realise bottom half of post was derp. Shudup.

[brave_chicken]

So many walls of text. I say that Archers are OP to not actually MEAN that they are OP, I just think they are the best off right now. They can solo to wave 5 or 6 easily, while a commando even using a fence will have trouble getting past wave 2. When a commando DOES get past wave 5, its with archers at his side doing a lot of the work. Archers are the most independent, which is frustrating for a commando when no good archers are on to help him.

[royalewithcheese]

First off, I'm glad horse archers are out of the mod now. A large part of the fun/challenge in NI is teamwork, and there were very few ways in which HA's were contributing to the team. That said, I think we need to expand the discussion (here or elsewhere) to the function of ALL cavalry in this mod. I am NOT advocating removing the class entirely. So just try to relax. But I would like to know how the developers perceive the role of cavalry in a team with infantry/archers and, more generally, in their mod as a whole. To me, it's the bad sign, for example, that we tend to distinguish between "cavalry maps" and "infantry maps."

[Borealis]

I find that snipers can solo almost everything except the very few last waves.

One shotting Zweihanders, check.

Shooting over shields in the face for 1-2 hit kills on the end waves, check.

Shooting once or twice at horses to cripple them (Much like the now useless player cavalry) then finishing the rider off with 1-2 arrow to the face, check.

And I can go on and on.

Doing any of that is also extremely easy when you have over 300 wpf in archery with a War bow.

The shooting over shields in the face only doesn't work in hardmode because they've got too much shield skill and the coverage is like twice as big as the actual shield's model.

I also think the problem is the fact that the game at this point relies on bullshit difficulty (Reminiscent of old shitty NES/SNES games where the difficulty was centered about how shitty the controls were as opposed to clever monster placement) such as bots having 150 strenght, 10 skill points in everything, using 99c 99p weapons that have crush through and bonus to shield with 130 speed (Prince is obviously and totally not rage inducing with the massive amount of bullshit surrounding him) as opposed to making the difficulty clever as opposed to just plain bullshit.

It's a bit like the Zweihander wave when I first started the game.

Fight farmers, next wave, plated guys with big ass swords, next wave, back to farmers. Totally not bullshit difficulty or anything, then later waves you have shielders with 5 times your strenght and all their skills maxed, cool.

I also think the idea of legendary weapons is also stupid, I think they all look like shit because the models have been ripped straight from old games (Obsidian axe from Lineage 2, explaining the shitty paper-thin fantasy model and extremely low res texture not to mention the yet again, OP stats as opposed to the stuff you can usually get.

The only legendary weapon I can deal with is the thunder lance, the model is still terrible and absolute crap but atleast the stats are balanced in regard to other weapons of the same kind.

Well, if that wasn't quite the big tangent, but I could go on and on and don't even let me get started on Cavalry being utterly useless, the so called fix changed the inconsistent as hell HP treshold from 95% to like 80%, I'm as useless as ever, let's disregard the fact that there's like 90% infantry map for 10% cavalry map, disregard the fact that cavalry is useless on foot and even on horseback does mediocre damage due to 2 power strike and no athletics on foot, apply nerf to cavalry, rejoice at the alienation of players.

[Sphinx]

You play Hard Mode ? Spectate a sniper , see how far he goes .. wave 3-4

Commando with sunpike can almost one shot Zweis

They can one shot horses , Snipers can't ...

And on and on and on ...

Sniper doesn't need to be nerfed , Commando needs a buff

[brave_chicken]

I find that snipers can solo almost everything except the very few last waves.

One shotting Zweihanders, check.

Shooting over shields in the face for 1-2 hit kills on the end waves, check.

Shooting once or twice at horses to cripple them (Much like the now useless player cavalry) then finishing the rider off with 1-2 arrow to the face, check.

And I can go on and on.

Doing any of that is also extremely easy when you have over 300 wpf in archery with a War bow.

The shooting over shields in the face only doesn't work in hardmode because they've got too much shield skill and the coverage is like twice as big as the actual shield's model.

I also think the problem is the fact that the game at this point relies on bullshit difficulty (Reminiscent of old shitty NES/SNES games where the difficulty was centered about how shitty the controls were as opposed to clever monster placement) such as bots having 150 strenght, 10 skill points in everything, using 99c 99p weapons that have crush through and bonus to shield with 130 speed (Prince is obviously and totally not rage inducing with the massive amount of bullshit surrounding him) as opposed to making the difficulty clever as opposed to just plain bullshit.

It's a bit like the Zweihander wave when I first started the game.

Fight farmers, next wave, plated guys with big ass swords, next wave, back to farmers. Totally not bullshit difficulty or anything, then later waves you have shielders with 5 times your strenght and all their skills maxed, cool.

I also think the idea of legendary weapons is also stupid, I think they all look like shit because the models have been ripped straight from old games (Obsidian axe from Lineage 2, explaining the shitty paper-thin fantasy model and extremely low res texture not to mention the yet again, OP stats as opposed to the stuff you can usually get.

The only legendary weapon I can deal with is the thunder lance, the model is still terrible and absolute crap but atleast the stats are balanced in regard to other weapons of the same kind.

Well, if that wasn't quite the big tangent, but I could go on and on and don't even let me get started on Cavalry being utterly useless, the so called fix changed the inconsistent as hell HP treshold from 95% to like 80%, I'm as useless as ever, let's disregard the fact that there's like 90% infantry map for 10% cavalry map, disregard the fact that cavalry is useless on foot and even on horseback does mediocre damage due to 2 power strike and no athletics on foot, apply nerf to cavalry, rejoice at the alienation of players.

There was not a single productive bit of information in this WOT that I now regret having read. Seriously, do you know how to do anything but rage? Ever since update 0.2.9 all I've seen of you is rage posts about cavalry being useless. For the sake of all of the community, make some suggestions. Your opinion is shit, just like everybody else's, but your suggestions could be of use.

[JOPO]

Add Steel Shield to commando and better one handers , thats what it needs