27-07-2013, 07:22 PM
I don't know how it is works yet, but I tested something today: on brute wave I killed all but 2 brutes, and then placed an shc. We then lured both brutes toward cades, and then just waitied to see what happened. It was roughly 15 to 20 seconds for them to break it. I don't know how they do it so fast with the buffed health, even with the little extra damage it shouldn't be that quick. One of my housemates theories is that if a bot chambers an attack and then starts to back away without releasing it, as they do on a semi-regular basis, it's just machine gunning damage at the cade. This would only make sense if the new damage system makes cades take damage when the bots are charging up an attack, so I doubt that's really what's going on.
I completely disagree with this. It's not about if it's difficult or not, because to be honest normal is still easy. As a house last night, we played two maps, and made it to prince both times. The first time was on fortress under siege, and we only used one normal cade too (we forgot to juggle all the others -.-). Prince spawned, crushes through our royal guard, everyone dies. The second map was swadian castle, we made use of a lot of heavy cades to deflect range, but again we shield walled. ALthough heavies behind the player were destroyed very quickly, we made it to prince with only 2 deaths. At prince however, despite having 10 normal cades and 3 shcs blocking their path, prince and friends roflstomped through all of them in about 15 to 20 seconds and slaughtered us. Mind you, we purposely made sure to not stack cades inside each other. there was a total of 6 rows of cades, all about a foot or so apart, so that they were just barely touching each other. My point is that this doesn't make the game harder, but ridiculous. A good team will have absolutely no problems getting to prince still, tome or not. But now it doesn't seem winnable unless you have a barrel or two on your side, or somehow managed to keep all the bots staggered indefinitely. In short, gameplay hasn't been made more of a challenge, Just the bosses that still have crush-through. If prince didn't have crush through, people who can't afford all the really nice items would still stand somewhat of a chance. Cades aren't particularly cheap either. It doesn't feel worth the time investing in heavy cades or higher if wave 6 can break it down in less than 30 seconds.
I understand that this was to make people use shield wall tactics and go out in free for all melees, which is fun, and i used to enjoy doing that all the time, but that was never a winning tactic from the start of this mod. The only times i can think of which players could actually beat wave 20 without having to use cades was back when there was still the knight class, and even then the only way to do it was to either be a very good knight or kite as an archer on beach assault. Now all that stuff is gone, so cades were a good fallback, but with those as useless as they are now, being an engineer feels pretty bad. Another thing is that with cades breaking so fast, higher level but underequipped players have to rely even more on the people who have ridiculously good equipment to come and save the day.
If someone can think of a way to kill prince now with the current cading system and without the use of barrels or tomes, I'm open to suggestions. Hoping he gets stuck at spawn is NOT a legitimate answer.
On a side not, I think royal assassins might need a slight debuff, despite being awesome and the raging of everyone when they wipe to them in hard now is nothing short of hilarious :p Also interesting thing we had the fun of discovering on fortress under siege, when enemies with throwing axes spawn, and immediately start spawning they actually arc over the walls and come down on the players, which is pretty sweet. Also very fun when an axe falls out of the sky on to the face of whoever is standing right next to you
(27-07-2013, 09:16 AM)Aegis_Gutsman link Wrote: Everyone will be complaining they are useless right now because they have not learned to adapt yet.
A simple way to solve the problem is to just spread barricades out so that they do not all get hit at the same time.
Maybe the range is too much but this game needs a challenge and people seem to think that once something becomes harder that it should be returned to what it was before
That being said in the event last night we made it to wave 16 hard and only died because 2 wraiths spawned. We had about 2 hours to adapt and for most of the people there that was plenty of time whenever a new system is brought into a game people need to find out how it works and find a way to work with it.
This is my personal opinion which seems to be only shown once before in this thread where as the majority seem to think "this is too hard I don't want to have to work for my good xp and loot".
If you disagree with what I have said please respond because if we have a discussion about it we will help the devs in their decision to change this.
I completely disagree with this. It's not about if it's difficult or not, because to be honest normal is still easy. As a house last night, we played two maps, and made it to prince both times. The first time was on fortress under siege, and we only used one normal cade too (we forgot to juggle all the others -.-). Prince spawned, crushes through our royal guard, everyone dies. The second map was swadian castle, we made use of a lot of heavy cades to deflect range, but again we shield walled. ALthough heavies behind the player were destroyed very quickly, we made it to prince with only 2 deaths. At prince however, despite having 10 normal cades and 3 shcs blocking their path, prince and friends roflstomped through all of them in about 15 to 20 seconds and slaughtered us. Mind you, we purposely made sure to not stack cades inside each other. there was a total of 6 rows of cades, all about a foot or so apart, so that they were just barely touching each other. My point is that this doesn't make the game harder, but ridiculous. A good team will have absolutely no problems getting to prince still, tome or not. But now it doesn't seem winnable unless you have a barrel or two on your side, or somehow managed to keep all the bots staggered indefinitely. In short, gameplay hasn't been made more of a challenge, Just the bosses that still have crush-through. If prince didn't have crush through, people who can't afford all the really nice items would still stand somewhat of a chance. Cades aren't particularly cheap either. It doesn't feel worth the time investing in heavy cades or higher if wave 6 can break it down in less than 30 seconds.
I understand that this was to make people use shield wall tactics and go out in free for all melees, which is fun, and i used to enjoy doing that all the time, but that was never a winning tactic from the start of this mod. The only times i can think of which players could actually beat wave 20 without having to use cades was back when there was still the knight class, and even then the only way to do it was to either be a very good knight or kite as an archer on beach assault. Now all that stuff is gone, so cades were a good fallback, but with those as useless as they are now, being an engineer feels pretty bad. Another thing is that with cades breaking so fast, higher level but underequipped players have to rely even more on the people who have ridiculously good equipment to come and save the day.
If someone can think of a way to kill prince now with the current cading system and without the use of barrels or tomes, I'm open to suggestions. Hoping he gets stuck at spawn is NOT a legitimate answer.
On a side not, I think royal assassins might need a slight debuff, despite being awesome and the raging of everyone when they wipe to them in hard now is nothing short of hilarious :p Also interesting thing we had the fun of discovering on fortress under siege, when enemies with throwing axes spawn, and immediately start spawning they actually arc over the walls and come down on the players, which is pretty sweet. Also very fun when an axe falls out of the sky on to the face of whoever is standing right next to you