I guess my only complaint is that when a player complains about the drop rate, legendary or not, they are told to go to Ragnarok because that has the higher drop rate.
[2013-06-07 16:50:08] <+Ragnash> hah
[2013-06-07 16:50:29] <+Ragnash> As YunYun said, he died about one millisecond afterwards.
[2013-06-07 16:50:48] <@Barristan> Will look at the Ragnarok loot system again... thought we fixed it
[2013-06-07 16:51:05] <@Barristan> But the legendary items have a very high drop rate compared to the other modes... so there's that
This is fine(though given the current history of drops for the last few months, it's fair to say it's not entirely true). Higher level players, which Ragnarok was designed for, should be able to do well in it, and they do. Odin has been slayed many, many times recently. As more and more high level players go to Rag whenever possible to attain these drops, they leave a larger part of players who are tier 3 to wipe in hard mode, meaning they cannot get any drops besides HM/SW/HC on the early waves(and they probably don't even get these). This is even worse for normal mode. Before Ragnarok tier 4 players would do prince several times, meaning players just starting out could level up at a reasonable pace, get a few HM/HC on wave 16 and level up, getting themselves better gear and this would carry over to hard mode, when they would play with several tier 4 players and be able to reach tier 4 themselves quickly as well, and thanks to the fact they were getting these drops like HM, WoG, maybe even a water or lump, they could make themselves more useful and so on until they became that well equipped tier 4 character that lower levels in normal mode could use to level up and so on and so on.
When these drops do not drop, and when high leveled players do not play normal this process of leveling up and becoming useful is ruined. The fact Hard mode is as easy as it is means tier 4/Hero characters have no reason to play normal, it doesn't give valuable drops wave after wave, the XP and gold gained is tiny, a few waves of hard mode currently gives about the same or more. This means fewer and fewer players are hitting level 32 at a reasonable pace, and when they do hit it they lack decent gear to make themselves useful to a team of hero classes and tier 4's because they don't get a team that can help them hit the valuable waves(Vet pikes, Chosen). Currently bear fur is going for 25k each or so, scales for 50k or so. A tier three crossbowmen needs around 250k to buy a powerful Xbow, a Seargant needs 100k for banded mail, 70k for SKS and so on and so on. They can't afford these. When they get to hardmode with marketplace gear, all they can do is leach because 4 or 5 hero's have everything handled. They don't gain the additional gold from killing the nord, and they don't get any drops so they are relying on marketplace gear, then they hit tier 4 and maybe they can afford a craftable armor or weapon. So they buy it, and then they have 0 gold left and they have to leech for another few weeks to get another low tier craftable for their class.
I don't mind high level players who already have decent gear or a fair amount of money and mats don't get drops every minute on Rag, because those drops are usually worth 50k,100k,300k and they get a large amount of gold from killing the nord, and large amounts of assist xp. The issue is the low drop rate on Normal and Hard mode hurts the lower level players without good gear more than it does the higher level and hero classed players who don't need these drops as much as the others. The economy for a lower level player is difficult, they rely on being able to buy a higher levels old gear cheaply, but without a large number of drops these items are being crafted less and less as those players who normally sell them are trying to buy/craft house craftable items and so they either sell these items only for Ragnarok exclusive drops(Eagle feathers/Damascus), or high wave Hard mode drops(Waters and arguably lumps) that these players don't reach often, and loot even less, or for pure gold, which these low level players have a near impossible time getting, since they can't slash effectively and usually a hero or tier 4 will do it instead, and they need to put what assist XP they get into support class and melee/ranged xp.
The real result of a low drop rate is a frustrating experience for low level players and hindrance, but not a large one, for more well geared players. I feel the drop rate should be adjusted for the sake of these players who rely on it to get anywhere. If not, they rely on having a large and wealthy house to get anywhere in the game. For example, VLKA players loan their gear to house mates very often, I believe [UK]_UnitedKillerz does as well. This enables the few in those houses to use good gear, but such players will still be unable to get their own gear and be useful to their house and their team on any given server without the aid of their house in crafting them because gaining gold and crafting materials is so difficult currently. Most of the high tier gear, field medic boxes, Master surgeons kits, tomes/barrel and what not are not being crafted by individual players, but through an entire house effort. This is partly because it is difficult for individual players to craft them on their own because they can't gain the items needed. They need 5 or more players to craft them in any decent amount of time. Imagine how frustrating it must be for a lower level player to try to craft their own gear, even buying is only slightly cheaper.
I know the issue is not the drop rate entirely, but it does seem the easiest to deal with and like it will have the largest individual effect. Another way would be to increase the drop rates of low level materials like Sturdy Wood and Heavy cloth while making them used in larger amounts for high level recipes, for example level 11+ in the personal crafting jobs and in every house crafting recipe. Because these two materials are looted on wave one of Hard mode even level 32 players could get them, and making them used in larger amounts would mean even players who have several hundred of them would need to buy them in large amounts to craft enough basic tier 4 gear or house craftable items. This would ensure low level players have a way of making money. If this happens the drop rate would not need to be changed to accommodate high level players while lower levels could still progress and become wealthy.
[2013-06-07 16:50:08] <+Ragnash> hah
[2013-06-07 16:50:29] <+Ragnash> As YunYun said, he died about one millisecond afterwards.
[2013-06-07 16:50:48] <@Barristan> Will look at the Ragnarok loot system again... thought we fixed it
[2013-06-07 16:51:05] <@Barristan> But the legendary items have a very high drop rate compared to the other modes... so there's that
This is fine(though given the current history of drops for the last few months, it's fair to say it's not entirely true). Higher level players, which Ragnarok was designed for, should be able to do well in it, and they do. Odin has been slayed many, many times recently. As more and more high level players go to Rag whenever possible to attain these drops, they leave a larger part of players who are tier 3 to wipe in hard mode, meaning they cannot get any drops besides HM/SW/HC on the early waves(and they probably don't even get these). This is even worse for normal mode. Before Ragnarok tier 4 players would do prince several times, meaning players just starting out could level up at a reasonable pace, get a few HM/HC on wave 16 and level up, getting themselves better gear and this would carry over to hard mode, when they would play with several tier 4 players and be able to reach tier 4 themselves quickly as well, and thanks to the fact they were getting these drops like HM, WoG, maybe even a water or lump, they could make themselves more useful and so on until they became that well equipped tier 4 character that lower levels in normal mode could use to level up and so on and so on.
When these drops do not drop, and when high leveled players do not play normal this process of leveling up and becoming useful is ruined. The fact Hard mode is as easy as it is means tier 4/Hero characters have no reason to play normal, it doesn't give valuable drops wave after wave, the XP and gold gained is tiny, a few waves of hard mode currently gives about the same or more. This means fewer and fewer players are hitting level 32 at a reasonable pace, and when they do hit it they lack decent gear to make themselves useful to a team of hero classes and tier 4's because they don't get a team that can help them hit the valuable waves(Vet pikes, Chosen). Currently bear fur is going for 25k each or so, scales for 50k or so. A tier three crossbowmen needs around 250k to buy a powerful Xbow, a Seargant needs 100k for banded mail, 70k for SKS and so on and so on. They can't afford these. When they get to hardmode with marketplace gear, all they can do is leach because 4 or 5 hero's have everything handled. They don't gain the additional gold from killing the nord, and they don't get any drops so they are relying on marketplace gear, then they hit tier 4 and maybe they can afford a craftable armor or weapon. So they buy it, and then they have 0 gold left and they have to leech for another few weeks to get another low tier craftable for their class.
I don't mind high level players who already have decent gear or a fair amount of money and mats don't get drops every minute on Rag, because those drops are usually worth 50k,100k,300k and they get a large amount of gold from killing the nord, and large amounts of assist xp. The issue is the low drop rate on Normal and Hard mode hurts the lower level players without good gear more than it does the higher level and hero classed players who don't need these drops as much as the others. The economy for a lower level player is difficult, they rely on being able to buy a higher levels old gear cheaply, but without a large number of drops these items are being crafted less and less as those players who normally sell them are trying to buy/craft house craftable items and so they either sell these items only for Ragnarok exclusive drops(Eagle feathers/Damascus), or high wave Hard mode drops(Waters and arguably lumps) that these players don't reach often, and loot even less, or for pure gold, which these low level players have a near impossible time getting, since they can't slash effectively and usually a hero or tier 4 will do it instead, and they need to put what assist XP they get into support class and melee/ranged xp.
The real result of a low drop rate is a frustrating experience for low level players and hindrance, but not a large one, for more well geared players. I feel the drop rate should be adjusted for the sake of these players who rely on it to get anywhere. If not, they rely on having a large and wealthy house to get anywhere in the game. For example, VLKA players loan their gear to house mates very often, I believe [UK]_UnitedKillerz does as well. This enables the few in those houses to use good gear, but such players will still be unable to get their own gear and be useful to their house and their team on any given server without the aid of their house in crafting them because gaining gold and crafting materials is so difficult currently. Most of the high tier gear, field medic boxes, Master surgeons kits, tomes/barrel and what not are not being crafted by individual players, but through an entire house effort. This is partly because it is difficult for individual players to craft them on their own because they can't gain the items needed. They need 5 or more players to craft them in any decent amount of time. Imagine how frustrating it must be for a lower level player to try to craft their own gear, even buying is only slightly cheaper.
I know the issue is not the drop rate entirely, but it does seem the easiest to deal with and like it will have the largest individual effect. Another way would be to increase the drop rates of low level materials like Sturdy Wood and Heavy cloth while making them used in larger amounts for high level recipes, for example level 11+ in the personal crafting jobs and in every house crafting recipe. Because these two materials are looted on wave one of Hard mode even level 32 players could get them, and making them used in larger amounts would mean even players who have several hundred of them would need to buy them in large amounts to craft enough basic tier 4 gear or house craftable items. This would ensure low level players have a way of making money. If this happens the drop rate would not need to be changed to accommodate high level players while lower levels could still progress and become wealthy.