22-11-2013, 11:13 PM
I would like to begin by saying it was not my intention to post here, but some of the suggestions and comments posted have made it needed.
I don't understand what you are saying here. Green drop rates as a topic have been discussed to death. You make two claims really. One is that the randomness of green drops should be reduced or removed, and that at the current the drop rate is too low to satisfy your expectations and desires. Then, you go on to say how the Dev team is going to revise the system of loot distribution. If you know that, then there is no need to make a paragraph complaining about the current system, since it will be replaced soon. Anyways, since you made this paragraph, it won't suffice to say it lacks purpose. On the topic of the current system. Going back to your two claims.
1: The randomness of receiving Green drops should be reduced or removed.
This is a pretty straight forward idea, and one that makes less sense than the current system. Randomness is a positive feature of the drop system. What fun is there is every week you can say with good accuracy what you will get? Do you really want to log on, load up NI, get a lump and a water and quit for the week, since the randomness is gone and you can nearly perfectly say that is all you will get? Does that sound remotely better or more enjoyable than the random system that has kept you going for so long, the system that you hate and have argued against for god knows how long, and yet still keeps you going. You, by your own admission, have stated it isn't friends or fun that keeps you going. This sounds like a reason to keep the drop system as it is more than a reason to change it, to me. Additionally, the randomness of receiving drops is a large benefit. If you could reasonably expect what drops you will receive, then you could reasonably guess what everyone would receive, given enough sets of data to extrapolate from, and if you can do that, then you can make relatively accurate predictions about anything in the in-game economy, and the wealthiest of players will be able to use that information to essentially control the in-game economy. That is not a desirable outcome, and random drops are the best way to ensure that does not happen and to ensure that there is economic mobility in the game.
2: The current drop rate is too low to satisfy your expectations and desires.
This one is beating a dead horse. It has been stated before that developers review the drops on a weekly, if not daily basis and adjust as needed. Saying the drop rate too low is meaningless. Which drop rate? From who's perspective? If the lump drop rate was changed two weeks ago, how would you even know? It's impossible. Additionally, you have no evidence to support this. All you are using here is your thoughts. You even said you will now record data, but you have none right now. Once you get this data, it might prove you wrong entirely. There is no reason to listen to this because there is nothing to support it as anything other than nonsense.
Once more, this is just a few simple claims.
1: People in my group don't loot legendaries and I don't like it.
This one is the easiest to address and the simplest. I figure that I'll toss out statistics as well. First off, I'm assuming your group of players, whom you label as "Veteran players" for some unknown reason, are those in Vlka, and those who participate in rag runs on a nightly basis(WS members, House of Tricksters Members, Vlka members, are the most common). According to the Legendary item thread, dating back no further than 84 days, WS_Rammy, NKA19, Shagz, and Reskan, members of your "Veteran players" who had looted a legendary. There. Your group of players has looted legendaries and you have no reason to complain.
2: People who loot legendaries don't deserve them, I know who deserves loots and who doesn't
Oh stop being such a whiny person. You are in no place to judge who deserve a drop and who does not. This is absurd. There is no fairer system than random chance. Yes, there is the occasional occurrence that someone who does not do as much as others gets the drop, but it is still infinitely better, indeed, if it occurred once for every two drops, it would still be infinitely better than the same 3-4 persons with all the gold and the best gear having a such a drastically larger drop chance than others who do not have such wealth, especially if those who are on the bottom have a 0% chance at a drop. This system here exists only to benefit the small minority who have wealth, experience, and a few friends with the same. It is not fair, it doesn't come close, it's a system so you can gloat about being special and better than others, and it's despicable that one would support such a system. The same applies for those who you feel leach. It is still better than they receive a drop than this proposed system exist. Drops should not exist as a reward for the wealthy so they may get wealthier, in fact I would say those who are poorer should receive a larger drop rate to break the monopoly on wealth that older players have. To a certain extent this has happened as can be seen by some FK members who have looted legendaries and are breaking that wealthy minority in doing.
Now, for a few closing notes.
On the subject of leaching players receiving a drop.
In NordInvasion, you are fortunate to have an easy to reach and active Admin team to resolve such issues. If you feel a player is leaching, please contact an admin here to resolve the issue. If you don't, and he gets a legendary and you feel like whining some more, the only person to blame is yourself. You had the chance to get it resolved and dealt with, but you chose not to and you got a result you did not like. Whining on the forums will change nothing. No system should be changed because you are too lazy to use the resources at your disposal.
On the subject of Deserving and undeserving players.
The only thing that matters is what you do. You yourself admit that gear is no requisite for doing well. Anyone can contribute to the team, poor or rich and high level or low. Some choose not to, true, and that is covered above. However, just because a person lacks the best gear, does not exclude them from this mystical land of "Veteran and deserving". Similarly, just because someone has some of the best gear available and is a hero class, does not mean they are immune from not contributing. I have seen one of the richest players around do 20 waves of Ragnarok, barely juggle, not healing, and in general barely doing anything, but, since he is a "Veteran and deserving" player to you, you would say he deserves a drop more than the level 39 who killed nords, juggled and or healed as well? Nonsense. There is no way to accurately judge who deserves and who does not, and since we cannot do that accurately the best system remains random chance, even with the faults it has.
Note: Since you gave no definition of "Veteran player" and "Deserving/Underserving", nor any standard of leaching, I simply put in what makes the most sense based on the post and your previous posts on the subject. If it is wrong, please correct me. Additionally, as I said, I did not want to post here. This might come of as a bit angry or upset, if so, it is not meant to be directed at you, or to show dislike of you, and I apologize if you find it that way.
(22-11-2013, 01:41 AM)madjosh link Wrote: Green drops:
Over the past month or so the lack of and therefore inflation in cost of green drops has been the subject of many veteran and fed up NI players. I can understand the balancing of drop rates especially that green drops is an extremely difficult task to get "right". However, at its current state in time many players including myself feel like their hard spent hours grinding away are rewarded "poorly" in this department. Drops of course vary from person to person and as such I intend to start making a log of the drops I get per run to back up and further prove this problem. I am also aware that the developers are working on a new and revised drop system to rival the current one. But for the time being we are stuck with the current one and I think I can safely say that many players believe these drop rates need...."revising"
I don't understand what you are saying here. Green drop rates as a topic have been discussed to death. You make two claims really. One is that the randomness of green drops should be reduced or removed, and that at the current the drop rate is too low to satisfy your expectations and desires. Then, you go on to say how the Dev team is going to revise the system of loot distribution. If you know that, then there is no need to make a paragraph complaining about the current system, since it will be replaced soon. Anyways, since you made this paragraph, it won't suffice to say it lacks purpose. On the topic of the current system. Going back to your two claims.
1: The randomness of receiving Green drops should be reduced or removed.
This is a pretty straight forward idea, and one that makes less sense than the current system. Randomness is a positive feature of the drop system. What fun is there is every week you can say with good accuracy what you will get? Do you really want to log on, load up NI, get a lump and a water and quit for the week, since the randomness is gone and you can nearly perfectly say that is all you will get? Does that sound remotely better or more enjoyable than the random system that has kept you going for so long, the system that you hate and have argued against for god knows how long, and yet still keeps you going. You, by your own admission, have stated it isn't friends or fun that keeps you going. This sounds like a reason to keep the drop system as it is more than a reason to change it, to me. Additionally, the randomness of receiving drops is a large benefit. If you could reasonably expect what drops you will receive, then you could reasonably guess what everyone would receive, given enough sets of data to extrapolate from, and if you can do that, then you can make relatively accurate predictions about anything in the in-game economy, and the wealthiest of players will be able to use that information to essentially control the in-game economy. That is not a desirable outcome, and random drops are the best way to ensure that does not happen and to ensure that there is economic mobility in the game.
2: The current drop rate is too low to satisfy your expectations and desires.
This one is beating a dead horse. It has been stated before that developers review the drops on a weekly, if not daily basis and adjust as needed. Saying the drop rate too low is meaningless. Which drop rate? From who's perspective? If the lump drop rate was changed two weeks ago, how would you even know? It's impossible. Additionally, you have no evidence to support this. All you are using here is your thoughts. You even said you will now record data, but you have none right now. Once you get this data, it might prove you wrong entirely. There is no reason to listen to this because there is nothing to support it as anything other than nonsense.
(22-11-2013, 01:41 AM)madjosh link Wrote: Legendary Drops:
This next section is once again a difficult one to address like the first, but, this is one that once again needs revising and I am aware that this one may not be possible to fix until the introduction the announced "new drop system”. This problem if you haven't clued it out for yourself is the award system of legendries. I have listened to the discussion of many TS conversations, rage posts on the forums etc. (most of these coming from veteran players) and to be honest they're "pissed off" at the kind of players looting such legendary. This I realise is an extreme generalisation and I'm sorry to the few who truly deserved their legendary drop, but, for the most part many of the people looting them sadly do not deserve them. i have been in ragnarok lobbys where the guy who looted the legendary wasn't the person who has grinded their ass of the longest or contributed their due part to the team but rather the guy sitting up at the back with his shield in the air.....leeching. This for me and many other players who feel like they bring something helpful to the team is a major slap in the face and for some people they've had enough. for example today i was part of a ragnarok lobby with many veteran players. Filling roughly 9 out of the 16 slots the rest who joined were poorly equipped for the challenge that is ragnarok mode. in good spirits we initially begun to help them to help the team. Did they accept the help?...NO, did they then contribute to the team?....NO. that run which i refer to could have definitely beaten Odin 100 times over but, rather than "carrying" these players to the boss we left, many of which did not return to play NI that day (which has been becoming more and more frequent)
Once more, this is just a few simple claims.
1: People in my group don't loot legendaries and I don't like it.
This one is the easiest to address and the simplest. I figure that I'll toss out statistics as well. First off, I'm assuming your group of players, whom you label as "Veteran players" for some unknown reason, are those in Vlka, and those who participate in rag runs on a nightly basis(WS members, House of Tricksters Members, Vlka members, are the most common). According to the Legendary item thread, dating back no further than 84 days, WS_Rammy, NKA19, Shagz, and Reskan, members of your "Veteran players" who had looted a legendary. There. Your group of players has looted legendaries and you have no reason to complain.
2: People who loot legendaries don't deserve them, I know who deserves loots and who doesn't
Oh stop being such a whiny person. You are in no place to judge who deserve a drop and who does not. This is absurd. There is no fairer system than random chance. Yes, there is the occasional occurrence that someone who does not do as much as others gets the drop, but it is still infinitely better, indeed, if it occurred once for every two drops, it would still be infinitely better than the same 3-4 persons with all the gold and the best gear having a such a drastically larger drop chance than others who do not have such wealth, especially if those who are on the bottom have a 0% chance at a drop. This system here exists only to benefit the small minority who have wealth, experience, and a few friends with the same. It is not fair, it doesn't come close, it's a system so you can gloat about being special and better than others, and it's despicable that one would support such a system. The same applies for those who you feel leach. It is still better than they receive a drop than this proposed system exist. Drops should not exist as a reward for the wealthy so they may get wealthier, in fact I would say those who are poorer should receive a larger drop rate to break the monopoly on wealth that older players have. To a certain extent this has happened as can be seen by some FK members who have looted legendaries and are breaking that wealthy minority in doing.
Now, for a few closing notes.
On the subject of leaching players receiving a drop.
In NordInvasion, you are fortunate to have an easy to reach and active Admin team to resolve such issues. If you feel a player is leaching, please contact an admin here to resolve the issue. If you don't, and he gets a legendary and you feel like whining some more, the only person to blame is yourself. You had the chance to get it resolved and dealt with, but you chose not to and you got a result you did not like. Whining on the forums will change nothing. No system should be changed because you are too lazy to use the resources at your disposal.
On the subject of Deserving and undeserving players.
The only thing that matters is what you do. You yourself admit that gear is no requisite for doing well. Anyone can contribute to the team, poor or rich and high level or low. Some choose not to, true, and that is covered above. However, just because a person lacks the best gear, does not exclude them from this mystical land of "Veteran and deserving". Similarly, just because someone has some of the best gear available and is a hero class, does not mean they are immune from not contributing. I have seen one of the richest players around do 20 waves of Ragnarok, barely juggle, not healing, and in general barely doing anything, but, since he is a "Veteran and deserving" player to you, you would say he deserves a drop more than the level 39 who killed nords, juggled and or healed as well? Nonsense. There is no way to accurately judge who deserves and who does not, and since we cannot do that accurately the best system remains random chance, even with the faults it has.
Note: Since you gave no definition of "Veteran player" and "Deserving/Underserving", nor any standard of leaching, I simply put in what makes the most sense based on the post and your previous posts on the subject. If it is wrong, please correct me. Additionally, as I said, I did not want to post here. This might come of as a bit angry or upset, if so, it is not meant to be directed at you, or to show dislike of you, and I apologize if you find it that way.