Kiting stuff, keep it here!

[madjsoh]

[quote author=The Cid link=topic=24687.msg172383#msg172383 date=1396200425]
Say what you will about first defence, like it or not it was the most played and popular map.  Maybe it was balanced in the players favor, but your talking about ONE map out of many.

Things cannot be balanced in favour of someone, it's the very definition of imbalance.
Reason why it was the most popular and played map is because it was hillariously inbalanced. People tend to stick with maps which give them easier victories (or a chance to get further than usual).
When you have a wide diversity of maps while players only cling on playing only on 1 or 2 maps, it's pretty obvious that those 1 or 2 maps are far easier to play than the rest of them. To get some balance you either nerf those few maps or you make all those other maps equally easy and it's pretty obvious which route the devs took.

Ask your self's this...Does having 1-2 good kiting maps really harm this mod???

I'm all for kiting as long as long as it's made harder. With current enormous ammo stacks, insanely high rate of fire, ability to outrun all bots and bots being outsmarted by average lemming, it's not really challenging nor skillful.
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by this logic should shielding be nerfed too? it seems the easiest tactic is getting easier and easier while the one aspect of the game that takes a degree of skill and fast thinking is the subject of discrimination.

on the subject of first defence being an easy map...well, so it should be. we are but 16 Swadians fighting against an enormous amount of Nords. it is only logical to pick a location that evens out the odds. futhremore, first defence was one of the few maps that were completable in what i consider a fair amount of time (2 hours being generous). it was also a map that could cater for all roles. on the subject of nord spawns,well, once again it is logical for the nords to come from the castle walls and not from within the swadians castle.

i can understand that there were some issues with nord pathing on that map. however, totally ruining the map because people became good playing on it was in my opinion not the solution. it is a grind game, the idea is to grind your way up until a point where gear and skill allow for quicker and/or easier completion. by removing kitting and forcing the shieldwall the mod has decreased it's playability by 50%

click touched on what the shield wall has become...easy, simple, and depending on your sway boring. legend rebutted clicks argument with some strong points about what the shield wall should be like, and to an extent what it was like. I remember the days when names such as ragnash, benschie, AEGIS_Peter, ON Eisenhorn and legend where the norm on a server and they exemplified what legend has spoken about above on the shield wall. they provided an example for other players on how to play the mod. since then it is an exception to see them playing and there is little to no one left exhibiting this exemplary play style in game. the bleak reality of what the shield wall tactic has become is as click has outlined previously. i recall discussions on the game when the devs took a firm stance against the shieldwall claiming that is was an easy way to get loot and thus the then subject of discrimination. it is because of this that i now don't understand why it is the shieldwall that is being accommodated for rather than the kite which provides a more challenging and diverse play style when compared to the current shieldwalls.