(10-12-2017, 08:18 AM)Bobo Wrote: Too much semantics and logic it all became, too little focus on the topic. The poll says 31/49 think infantry is strong, ok or small changes are needed. 18/49 said it is underpowered. Maybe it's just that the infantry is more difficult to play than spamming projectiles, the score is low and there's much higher risk of death for it that it is not so entertaining, funny and rewarding. If that is the problem then inf will always be felt underpowered and not worth it by some (many?) players. But it's just the nature of this class to fight in close quarters with whatever negatives it involves.
Logic is the best way to approach a problem. This thread isn't getting anywhere due to lack of logic, imho. The way you are separating the poll, for example, is illogical and slanted in favor of the point you want to make. It would make more sense to group those saying infantry needs small changes with the group saying infantry is underpowered/the worst than it is to group them with those saying everything is fine. In that case, it is 28/49 saying infantry needs to be changed as a class, 12/49 saying it is fine as it is (I am not including the 3 trolls for obvious reasons, but feel free to add that yourself, it makes little difference
), and 6/49 think Wall Barricades are the cause of the problem.I don't think leaving it at "Infantry is more difficult to play" and that is why people don't like it is a sufficient answer. The classes should all be inviting for players of all skill levels to play. I'm not a fan of elitist players saying their class is only for skilled players in other games, and I'm not a fan of it here. I think it is sufficient to say that in the hands of a skilled player with adequate equipment, any class can achieve very high scores. As Kaasovic keeps saying, think of all infantry players, not just the outliers. Balance should not be based on the best case scenarios. Archers would be having an awful time if the class was balanced (nerfed repeatedly) so that Tsuki wouldn't get top kills almost every game.
(10-12-2017, 08:18 AM)Bobo Wrote: The problem is Nords often advance in numbers and there's single inf against many enemies situation. To handle it easily the class would have be made crazy op. Just think about 1 vs 1 scenario and that says more about the power the class has. Also, if anyone thinks about soloing bosses then I'd say bosses are designed to be damn strong and I believe there shouldn't be any class or any gear able to deal against bosses alone. What bosses would they be then? (yeah I know ranged can do this if manage to stay away but that's about kitting and in theory one can kite anything on a proper map, let's leave it alone here).
I don't think anyone is advocating for handling large groups of Nords easily. It seems more that they want a class that keeps being referred to as a tank to be able to tank more hits than the other classes on waves where it actually matters. It is odd to simultaneously hold the view that infantry is the "tank" class but then say it shouldn't be able to survive significantly (more than one) more hits than other classes. Maybe I am wrong and no one holds this position, but it seems to be the idea being used to throw out any ideas of buffing the survivability of infantry, along with slippery slopes and strawmen of infantry becoming invincible and OP.
(10-12-2017, 08:18 AM)Bobo Wrote: PS. I can imagine the runs with all op inf one-hit slaying whatever comes near and then the threads begging for making ranged stronger for none plays them anymore. If you wanna try it join beginner, with good armour you can just stand among enemies and smile. Really boring.
As funny as it is to imagine, I don't think this is what anyone is asking for.
I think the arguing of "semantics and logic" are to keep people from being intellectually dishonest by misrepresenting the views of those they disagree with and skewing stats to support their position.
By the way, this is important:
Kip has stated that the way the percentage reduction code is written it will always round up. This means that the damage reduction, which is applied AFTER the regular armor values, will never contribute to an attack bouncing. This means that the damage reduction can be adjusted for different classes and armors and will not contribute to bouncing or make players invincible, just effectively adjust their hit point pool by changing the percentage of incoming damage after all other values are applied that actually gets through.