21-01-2012, 09:44 PM
Archers are overpowered now? NERF CAV! NERF ARCHERS! NERF COMMANDOS I'VE SEEN ONE KILLING TWO NORDS IN A ROW!
Playing as a foot archer i can tell you that i don't feel overpowered one bit in hard mode given the number of fast closing enemies, other ranges and the rest being heavy shielded and asks for several HS through their defense to die. I end up relying on my team mates and am only as useful as they allow me to be by aggroing and defending me. I don't see how i could ever solo Hard mode till wave 7 or 8 by myself and I doubt any archer could. Given how hard it can be to HS enemies now (awkward movement behavior, better shield coverage, enemy range threat, etc.), given how many HS is needed for an enemy to fall and considering my lifespan drastically is reduced to like 5 seconds when any enemy get close I really don't see how a foot archer could solo better than a Commando or Knight.
You're talking about archer kiting issues, like hit & run (which is btw a viable and logical archer tactic) as if it was an unfair advantage over other classes. Well it's not. Every class as its pros and cons, you can't just take a pros from a class and compare it to another without talking about the cons, it's just silly, no offense. Archers have poor armors, and "real" range players gotta drop the melee to wear a reasonable amount of arrows making them totally and utterly useless at close quarter combat but that way they don't have to waste precious range dps for the team by refilling every couple of waves. They barely (do they even?) run faster than plated armored Commandos/knights and their damage output is, let's be honest a second, a joke unless they hit the head (and that's what every archer tries to do at all time).
That said, foot archers can't hit & run properly anyway, if they can it's only because a team mate is holding the enemy off for the archer to survive another day. If archers could run twice as fast as the enemy then sure that would be a real hit&run but as of now only horses can do that, hence the needed nerf. Archers can't backpedal considering the accuracy drop when moving, Commandos can, you don't see screaming all over the place how OP they are over me, cause sure they can backpedal, deal incredible dmg and tank five times better than me, but they have to get close and most importantly they protect me.
Knights are masters of the hit&run, its what they do, its why they survive, it's why it's nerfed, but their dmg output ain't incredible at all, they ain't killing dozens of enemies a second, it's just the AI can't deal with the horse kiting so the player survive so everyone think they're OP.
The most effective class in Hard mode IS the Commando, if you doubt that well, pay attention next time you have a few rounds at hard mode what classes really help your team survive, archers is just a support class. Commando isn't under powered.
Mounted war bow shouldn't even be discussed, its plain OP and it's obvious.
The problem with the horses in general is and always will be then AI. Game mechanics has been built thinking a horse was meant to be charged into enemy line, not kite indefinitely. You didn't see Knights running around a group of enemies, trying to, in a shy manner, lance an enemy and be the most possible cautious about it. They just charged and endured the melee. That's the problem with many games, you can't fix player's behavior, no one want to take one for the team.
I know I'd love to see a proper lined charge of 5 or 6 full plated players on war horses into the enemy lines and see what happens. If that courageous and incredibly well coordinated team effort cavalry charge would just get the heroes killed bringing with them only a handful of enemies then in my mind it means the game ain't balanced and it has to be addressed, meaning you can't blame players for misusing horses. If on the other hand it works and the enemy suffers heavy losses vs reasonable death on the player's side, then it's the players fault for not using effective team strategies just because they don't want to be the one risking their lives.
It's all about team work, if team work ain't rewarding, handsomely, then there's a major flaw in the design and it really should be adressed.
Playing as a foot archer i can tell you that i don't feel overpowered one bit in hard mode given the number of fast closing enemies, other ranges and the rest being heavy shielded and asks for several HS through their defense to die. I end up relying on my team mates and am only as useful as they allow me to be by aggroing and defending me. I don't see how i could ever solo Hard mode till wave 7 or 8 by myself and I doubt any archer could. Given how hard it can be to HS enemies now (awkward movement behavior, better shield coverage, enemy range threat, etc.), given how many HS is needed for an enemy to fall and considering my lifespan drastically is reduced to like 5 seconds when any enemy get close I really don't see how a foot archer could solo better than a Commando or Knight.
You're talking about archer kiting issues, like hit & run (which is btw a viable and logical archer tactic) as if it was an unfair advantage over other classes. Well it's not. Every class as its pros and cons, you can't just take a pros from a class and compare it to another without talking about the cons, it's just silly, no offense. Archers have poor armors, and "real" range players gotta drop the melee to wear a reasonable amount of arrows making them totally and utterly useless at close quarter combat but that way they don't have to waste precious range dps for the team by refilling every couple of waves. They barely (do they even?) run faster than plated armored Commandos/knights and their damage output is, let's be honest a second, a joke unless they hit the head (and that's what every archer tries to do at all time).
That said, foot archers can't hit & run properly anyway, if they can it's only because a team mate is holding the enemy off for the archer to survive another day. If archers could run twice as fast as the enemy then sure that would be a real hit&run but as of now only horses can do that, hence the needed nerf. Archers can't backpedal considering the accuracy drop when moving, Commandos can, you don't see screaming all over the place how OP they are over me, cause sure they can backpedal, deal incredible dmg and tank five times better than me, but they have to get close and most importantly they protect me.
Knights are masters of the hit&run, its what they do, its why they survive, it's why it's nerfed, but their dmg output ain't incredible at all, they ain't killing dozens of enemies a second, it's just the AI can't deal with the horse kiting so the player survive so everyone think they're OP.
The most effective class in Hard mode IS the Commando, if you doubt that well, pay attention next time you have a few rounds at hard mode what classes really help your team survive, archers is just a support class. Commando isn't under powered.
Mounted war bow shouldn't even be discussed, its plain OP and it's obvious.
The problem with the horses in general is and always will be then AI. Game mechanics has been built thinking a horse was meant to be charged into enemy line, not kite indefinitely. You didn't see Knights running around a group of enemies, trying to, in a shy manner, lance an enemy and be the most possible cautious about it. They just charged and endured the melee. That's the problem with many games, you can't fix player's behavior, no one want to take one for the team.
I know I'd love to see a proper lined charge of 5 or 6 full plated players on war horses into the enemy lines and see what happens. If that courageous and incredibly well coordinated team effort cavalry charge would just get the heroes killed bringing with them only a handful of enemies then in my mind it means the game ain't balanced and it has to be addressed, meaning you can't blame players for misusing horses. If on the other hand it works and the enemy suffers heavy losses vs reasonable death on the player's side, then it's the players fault for not using effective team strategies just because they don't want to be the one risking their lives.
It's all about team work, if team work ain't rewarding, handsomely, then there's a major flaw in the design and it really should be adressed.