Concept: Loot Skill

[Punishment™]

Just make Ragnarok level 52 only and you must be T4 in support class. Ragnarok should be for good players who are all there for the team and bring in items that benefit and don't have the intention of leeching.

If you want to bring in dep shields or nothing at all, let alone be completley useless, go play hard mode, you can learn how to play NI there if you were too ignorant to learn anything in normal mode BEFORE you come to ragnarok.

Should not have to deal with leechers/noobs/idiots on Ragnarok, that is what Normal/Hard is for.

All summed up. Like suggested so many times raise the level requirement to lvl 52. (and im also agreeing with the tier 4 support class).

[Maroon]

Can't agree with you there, Slayer. Like Sudoku said, the fact that you are level 52 doesn't mean that you're useful. For example, in the time that I used the Champion's Standard, I wasn't coming on with a level 52 character. What's more, it would encourage level 52 players to stay on rag, not helping at hard or normal, making the process to level 52 even longer for other players, as there would be less carriers on the server.

[madjsoh]

Can't agree with you there, Slayer. Like Sudoku said, the fact that you are level 52 doesn't mean that you're useful. For example, in the time that I used the Champion's Standard, I wasn't coming on with a level 52 character. What's more, it would encourage level 52 players to stay on rag, not helping at hard or normal, making the process to level 52 even longer for other players, as there would be less carriers on the server.

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Lvl 52s don't want to carry noobs who will steal their drops. There are level reqs on hard and rag for a reason. They could easily take the level reqs off rag so the high levels could level the noobs but the fact is the high levels don't want to help them ...hence private server requests and new drop systems etc

Also for those of you who haven't had the pleasure of playing with click, he is a prime exhibit for a high level player who constantly helps redshirts even turning down Odin runs to help on normal.it seems now even he has had enough...we cannot honestly all believe that this system is the fairest so rather than shooting down posts on drop rates help come up with ideas for a new one.

[Maroon]

In the case I wasn't clear enough, I was referring to this post:

Spoiler

Just make Ragnarok level 52 only and you must be T4 in support class. Ragnarok should be for good players who are all there for the team and bring in items that benefit and don't have the intention of leeching.

If you want to bring in dep shields or nothing at all, let alone be completley useless, go play hard mode, you can learn how to play NI there if you were too ignorant to learn anything in normal mode BEFORE you come to ragnarok.

Should not have to deal with leechers/noobs/idiots on Ragnarok, that is what Normal/Hard is for.

Afaik, I was not 'shooting down' the main post about the droprates, but honestly, "noobs who will steal their [level 52 players] drops"? Jesus Christ, you're talking as if no one but level 52 players should even have a chance of looting stuff.
While I agree with you that carrying a full normal server can be tiresome sometimes, when people refuse to listen to sensable advice and stuff, but there is honestly no better way of killing a mod than by discouraging newer players, because they have a slight chance of "stealing drops".
Yes, the current system is bad, but no, the system posted here won't fix it. There is absolutely no reason a certain level should be privileged over lower levels, purely because their level is higher. Again this discussion leads to the fact that there is no decent way of coming up with a drop system that rewards effort.
The best solution, imo, still is the NKP system, not a system that increases dropchances for higher levels, and purely because they are higher levels.

[madjsoh]

@maroon,second para was not accusing u :p.  once again this system does not exclude low levels from loot chance. Just makes looting legendaries a lot harder. At it's current state I believe ni needs to switch it's current focus onto keeping their existing player base rather than soley promoting growth (otherwise we'd have a bunch of redshirts running around until they realise they can't get anywhere because all the experienced players have left due to reasons aforementioned) this system is not to say the noobs can't loot anything but rather those people who just downloaded the mod (before they even decide if they enjoy it) don't have the same chance as someone who has been playing for years. 

Sorry for grammar etc this was typed up on an iPod lol

[clickeverywhere]

Alright guys, let's not let this get out of hand. This thread was merely to present a concept as I had noticed the recent complaints about the current loot system.

@madjosh, that's for another topic= please keep the discussion about the proposed system. I still do my best to help low levels in normal mode, it's just annoying when they don't listen to instructions. I haven't given up or anything, and it is important to make sure the mod grows and new players are not discouraged from playing.

To address what Sudoku has said, I agree that just because you're level 52 doesn't mean you're useful. I addressed this in my original post. But those who do not bring support items are unlikely to contribute more to a run. I understand that a low level newbie can do more than a high level by juggling tomes/barricades, picking up a medic box and healing, and building barricades. But this is the exception, not the rule. Systems are based around rules, not exceptions. The arsenal that a low level has for contributing is smaller than that of a high level.

This system would mean that no low level would ever get worthy drop if even  one 52 character  was on the server , no matter if he contributes or not.

This is a ridiculous, blatantly untrue statement. Please read the first post and stop misrepresenting what I have put forth. My proposed system only gives a slight difference, 5 percent at the very highest. Obviously, if you think about it, the majority of players on a normal server are not level 1 and therefore the difference would usually be at most 4%. How would a level 1 get a "worthy drop" on normal mode anyway? A team of level 1s has a 0 percent chance of getting past wave 8 so I don't see why people are finding it unreasonable if in a team of level 1s with one level 52, the level 52 shouldn't have a slight advantage for finding drops over the other players on the server. On a hard server, the biggest difference you'd get would be 3.5%. On a Ragnarok server, the biggest difference you'd get would be 3.5%. And this is assuming the other player has put nothing in his support classes (which should not be happening in a hard or ragnarok server anyway, so this is unlikely to be the case!).

On the point of "encouraging level 52 players to stay on rag", I don't see this happening. It could in fact have the opposite effect, because they know they have a better chance of getting drops even when there are low level players on the server. I don't like to say this, but it sucks when a level 1 finds a dragon axe or something by sitting in the back while high levels kill all the Nords. This system will prevent this to some degree. High level players will have more incentive to play hard or normal because they have a higher chance of loot. This benefits the low levels too because they are able to gain more experience at a faster rate.

All this argument seems to have been made unnecessary though. I've received word that the devs have something in the works, but we can't expect them to just push it out the door immediately after a complaint is made. What every player who has put forth complaints should understand is that changes take time to implement and for something as crucial as a loot system, it is best to move forward with caution.

[Maroon]

Oh, sorry for misinterpreting that, Josh.
I don't think that NI is soley aimed at getting new players in, I mean, almost all of the forumers from the past year are still around now, and the devs already stated they'd be looking into changing the loot system. Of course, the mod shouldn't only aim to bring new people in, but it's never done so, not from my point of view at least.

Also, @click, the encouraging people to stay on rag part was aimed towards people saying rag should be 52 only, not your post.

[clickeverywhere]

Ahh, sorry maroon, my post took so long to write and I hadn't seen your recent reply. Damn that Slayer for dragging this off topic  ;D

I don't intend for this thread to be one for people to complain about drop rates in. I created this thread because of Sobel's thread about new skills, and didn't want to drag his thread offtopic.

[Malong]

I like the idea, with adjustments for hero. And to the people talking about alts: you're playing the alt (instead of a main) to level it up and were already there for the xp.

[bossculeur]

Alts shouldn't retain the loot skill of a single character/account. The whole point is that this system would measure your contribution to the team. If an alt only has tier 1 support it should only have the appropriate loot skill based on that. Otherwise it gives an arbitrary advantage to people who have been here longer than others.

I don't think it would make sense for heroes to have a higher loot skill.

Maroon, how would raising the rag level requirement make players play less normal and hard? Level 52s can already play rag so nothing would be different for them. Things would operate as they do now: if you have a good enough group you play rag, If you don't have a group for rag you play hard, and if you don't have a good enough group for hard you play normal.

Sudoku_killer, obviously some lower levels are better players than some level 52s but a level 52 is more likely to be better because they have a higher base damage output, so it only makes sense to design a system with this in mind.