[Feature Request] Weapon Evolution

[DR.]

wouldn’t that create a pressure for players to unlock more heroes even if they don’t want to?

Of course there's going to be a slight more pressure than there is but there is only pressure to play on the 1 id currently

Right now, players can focus on either one hero or multiple, depending on their preference. 

If you play on 1 id you get rewarded with quests that lead to actual fixed wealth that can improve your gear like upgrades that will make you more powerful 

vs 

If you keep making more heroes you literally get nothing right now In fact quite the opposite because you're spending gold/time/rag loot chance etc to make a slight variation of a character that you already have in cases like myself. People that make all heroes its not on preference but simply out of boredom mostly and for me an achievement that no one else has done.

Doing a quest on 1 id for that long to [only] get 5mil gold at my wealth level is almost meaningless I may as well do what I want not being a bitch to the system that stands before me

Collectables literally do not play a factor in meta gameplay there value comes from rarity and looks but mostly rarity

What separates these 2 items from the other 2 items that makes them more valuable is simply their scarcity that is it there stats are relatively pointless. 




As I've suggested, if I'm to get a unique collectible for making all possible 24 heroes yes, it would be the first one and yes, the market would probably value it at extremely high levels that are stupid. However I'm not going to be the one to sell it why would I what could literally anyone offer me that I would want in comparison. We need to keep in mind who has the wealth currently to make all 24 heroes because it's like you need to have 18 mil of gold just sitting there not being used.. that doesnt come from nowhere. You are probably extremely wealthy in this game to begin with. It's very likely the people that actually make all 24 heroes are quite likely to just keep it.

Yes there would be probably a demand for it enough that a few people would probably just make all 24 heroes just to sell it to someone else however, given enough time as I've suggested before, supply and demand will come into effect. This would lead to the most optimal way to build real wealth to upgrade your gear is playing on 1id still

Would be a time where you at least get rewarded from making all heroes rather than ATM It feels like you're getting sort of punished because you're not playing on 1 ID for autistic levels.

[Corrndog]

Instead of a "simple" and boring increase in stats, i'd like to see adding bonuses to items like a speed bonus in armor or boots. This way, everyone would be able to create their uniqueness to some extent and play in their own style. Other than that, I'm all for the upgrades because it gives another way to grind, although at some points the game can become too easy.

Basically „re-forging”?

Yes, you’ve captured my point perfectly.

[Hamsterino]

I don't think adding anything like that would be a good idea, for mainly two reasons. First, it makes the already existing power creep even worse. The best example I can think of are Volcs; it's already fairly easy to solo rag with those, even if they're not upgraded and I don't want to imagine what the stats ''Raging Volcanic Daggers III'' would look like. Second reason is the sheer amount of mats/gold, aka time, you'd need to upgrade anything thrice.
Imagine you're a new player who already played enough to become a warden (just to find out it's trash) and you open the wiki for the very first time. The long-term goal you see there is a Raging Tempest and Blessed Zephyr Arrows. You then decide to find out how expensive it is to get those. You look closely and see a total of 16 Legendary Essences, 2 upgrade kits and 2 HC items. How much could that be? Asking someone ingame, you find out a single Legendary Essence is worth 2mil, the HC items sell for about 2,5mil each and checking your account, you realise you have 10 lumps which you apparently need hundreds of. Yesterday, you were happy you finally could afford that hero class for 750k and today you find out that you'll never be able to afford those cool weapons you picked up from other players. At this point, you do not even have the unupgraded legendary item and haven't looted once.
All in all, that's pretty discouraging already if you ask me, and that's not even armour. Now imagine adding another two layers to this. Upgrades should never have been a thing.

[Venom]

I don't think adding anything like that would be a good idea, for mainly two reasons. First, it makes the already existing power creep even worse. The best example I can think of are Volcs; it's already fairly easy to solo rag with those, even if they're not upgraded and I don't want to imagine what the stats ''Raging Volcanic Daggers III'' would look like. Second reason is the sheer amount of mats/gold, aka time, you'd need to upgrade anything thrice.
Imagine you're a new player who already played enough to become a warden (just to find out it's trash) and you open the wiki for the very first time. The long-term goal you see there is a Raging Tempest and Blessed Zephyr Arrows. You then decide to find out how expensive it is to get those. You look closely and see a total of 16 Legendary Essences, 2 upgrade kits and 2 HC items. How much could that be? Asking someone ingame, you find out a single Legendary Essence is worth 2mil, the HC items sell for about 2,5mil each and checking your account, you realise you have 10 lumps which you apparently need hundreds of. Yesterday, you were happy you finally could afford that hero class for 750k and today you find out that you'll never be able to afford those cool weapons you picked up from other players. At this point, you do not even have the unupgraded legendary item and haven't looted once.
All in all, that's pretty discouraging already if you ask me, and that's not even armour. Now imagine adding another two layers to this. Upgrades should never have been a thing.

I see your point about power creep and how expensive the current upgrade system already is, but I don’t necessarily think expanding upgrades is inherently a bad idea—it just needs proper balancing.
For example, instead of making upgraded weapons significantly stronger, maybe future upgrades could focus on alternative effects rather than raw stat increases. That way, we don’t just keep making stronger and stronger weapons but add more variety instead.
Also, while it’s true that the current economy makes it hard for new players to get top-tier items, that’s already an issue regardless of additional upgrades. Wouldn’t a more structured upgrade system actually give more stepping stones rather than just making everything feel like an unreachable goal?

[DR.]

Upgrades should never have been a thing.

I paid 60m gold + Pike of kings + Dark Gothic or so for normal Typhoon a few weeks before upgrades came out. That wasnt even the 1st Typhoon.

Imagine saying to a new person that starts today when rag runs give you not even 100k gold or what ever it is some items cost 100m+

Upgrades did not come because more power was needed in game its because a gold sink was heavily needed. We got a item sink with legendary essence recently that was needed as well

These changes dont happen for no reason It happens because at the highest levels of the game there are problems in the market that do start to affect everyone in time

What affects me and others in the 1% will eventually affect everyone. We are the canary in the coal mine as you will. We the richest players are the ones that buy the mats buy the loot buy everything. Ni is going in one direction and that is everyone is getting richer over all and the 1% even more so. Welcome to capitalism enjoy your stay.

If im just sitting on items at this point not needing to sell them and im only looking for very certain things that I don't particularly want that badly.. welp. This will be a problem that will affect more and more players as this game ages more and more if nothing changes.

Mind you I could have made this post in 2020 the difference is I simply stopped playing the game because there was nothing else to do.

[Hamsterino]

I see your point about power creep and how expensive the current upgrade system already is, but I don’t necessarily think expanding upgrades is inherently a bad idea—it just needs proper balancing.
For example, instead of making upgraded weapons significantly stronger, maybe future upgrades could focus on alternative effects rather than raw stat increases.

We're talking about an upgrade, which is supposed to make the item stronger in some way, because if it didn't, it wouldn't be an upgrade. So the item has to become better, faster, longer, lighter, etc. and if it doesn't, it has to have some kind of special ability to, guess what, make it stronger. If the upgrade doesn't provide any kind of bonus, there is no reason to pay millions of gold (or dozens of hours of time) for it, and if the upgrade gives you any bonus, there's power creep. I hope that's understandable

That way, we don’t just keep making stronger and stronger weapons but add more variety instead.

As I've said, the alternative has to be more powerful in some way, because I think it'll be very hard to convince people to upgrade an item a second time just for a different playstyle with no real advantage.

Also, while it’s true that the current economy makes it hard for new players to get top-tier items, that’s already an issue regardless of additional upgrades.

My problem is that a second or even third upgrade would make that even worse. The only solution to not make it worse would be to spread the current upgrade cost on two different upgrades, so a full upgrade would be still as expensive as before, but it gives you two stages. This doesn't solve the issue of power creep tho.

Wouldn’t a more structured upgrade system actually give more stepping stones rather than just making everything feel like an unreachable goal?

A good idea would be to take the current upgrade and turn it into two or three individual upgrades. 
Let's take the Tempest as an example again: for the first upgrade (which you could call ''Reforged Tempest'') you only need like 3 essences and the Huntress, but it gives you only 1 speed, 1 dmg and 1 missile speed. For the second upgrade (which could just keep the name ''Raging Tempest'') you need 6 essences and the toolkit, but it gives you the other +1 speed, 2 dmg, 1 missile speed and 5 accuracy.
Applying that to all the upgrades would make progression feel a lot more smooth and less frustrating, because there's those stepping stones (or stepping stone, for that matter), as you said.
So all in all I still don't think adding more upgrades that make Swadia's soldiers stronger is a good idea, but revising the upgrade system might be reasonable.

Upgrades did not come because more power was needed in game its because a gold sink was heavily needed.

 
Whatever the reason was, the upgrades added power, and now that's a problem. Adding more upgrades will add more power in one way or another.

[DR.]

Upgrades did not come because more power was needed in game its because a gold sink was heavily needed.

 
Whatever the reason was, the upgrades added power, and now that's a problem. Adding more upgrades will add more power in one way or another.

A gold sink is pointless if no one used it. You actually need to make it compelling find the balance. 

I fully agree that Power creep is a problem but you can't stop the progression of items in a game like this that's the reason people play 

You simultaneously need to give players goals things they can spend their wealth on while also making the game play harder to slow people down also making it more engaging 

Both things can be true at once

As I suggested in a different thread if we're going to get a better things then upgrades I'm all for it taking 2 upgrades of the same item + something else. This acts as an all sink because it simultaneously is an item sink and a gold sink and a mat sink 

It's also good because the items in high demand like upgraded stag bow will be yes, extremely wanted for duplicates however if you can get 2 upgraded hurricanes for example for a lot cheaper.. This will actually put pressure on the market in a new refreshing way. People like myself would be looking to trade sets for other sets with other rich people. The rich would actually have a demand for a lot of things that they currently just don't have that is what you want

[Malong]

I do still believe a mini rise of the ashes should be a thing for the people like myself that have a lot of IDs close to 50%

I will clarify I think it should be an exponential reward. If it's 250 bots I need to kill I don't think 2.5m gold is good but 2mill or less is fine

No. Also you mean logarithmic.

[DR.]

I do still believe a mini rise of the ashes should be a thing for the people like myself that have a lot of IDs close to 50%

I will clarify I think it should be an exponential reward. If it's 250 bots I need to kill I don't think 2.5m gold is good but 2mill or less is fine

No. Also you mean logarithmic.

Kind of a nitpick when you clearly understood what I meant to be able to correct it

Most people understand the word exponential no need to overcomplicate language we are on a game forum

[Malong]

I do still believe a mini rise of the ashes should be a thing for the people like myself that have a lot of IDs close to 50%

I will clarify I think it should be an exponential reward. If it's 250 bots I need to kill I don't think 2.5m gold is good but 2mill or less is fine

No. Also you mean logarithmic.

Kind of a nitpick when you clearly understood what I meant to be able to correct it

Most people understand the word exponential no need to overcomplicate language we are on a game forum

That's a reflection on me and my aptitude, not on you and your ability to communicate. You essentially typed "Greetings gangster, I typed the opposite of what I really meant, but despite that, I am still correct."