Official Feedback - Number of Waves [Implemented]

[Orgarth]

I agree with what Woody said-
12 on beginner,
16 on normal,
20 hard,
20-24 on ragnarok.
Cav could probably do with a few waves shaved off.

[Bobo]

It's ok the way it is for me, probably because it's always been this way which ofc is not argument for (or against). As I browsed through the thread it seems the idea of less waves per run looks promising to many players. That brings a question to my mind: is it possible to make some testing in a one dedicated server or is it damn too much work to do so?

[Kip]

Depending on how much work it will take just to get the changes made, I'd be fine with having a trial run of it. Just want to make sure there is interest before spending a lot of time to make it happen.

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As you could probably have guessed by now, I'm in full favor of cutting some waves. Not sure I would go all the way down to 12. Originally I liked 16 but with spawns every three waves, I like 15.

As I see it, making things take longer is an artificial way to make things seem harder. The only way it is actually harder is that you must be patient enough (and have enough time) to actually finish the run. True difficulty is how hard it is to kill the bots without getting killed. You could make a run 50 waves long and it would take forever but be no harder than 10. On the other hand, you could make one wave of OP bots which is incredibly difficult to get past.

Whether we change the number of waves or not, I think we all agree Ragnarok needs to get harder. If we leave the waves as they are now, whatever we do to make Rag harder will likely make it take longer than it does now. My opinion is that on an average map (not a fast map), the game takes a long time as it is. I know there are some people who could spend hours playing but what is the harm in saying those hours could include one or two more runs so that people with less time can still get a chance to complete a full run?

Getting back to making Rag harder, rather than just flooding players with numbers (which has contributed to many a server crash), we could increase the HP of the enemies, make them deal more damage, and perhaps throw in some specialized abilities here and there now that the new spawn script allows for more control. With all that, I see no reason why Rag with fewer waves should be any easier than Rag as it is now.

It is certainly possible to code different wave numbers and spawn counters for each wave but is there really a reason to? I have already made my argument about time vs difficulty. It can also be argued that it just adds another thing to trip up people new to the mod. It is just so much simpler to say "Every run has 15 waves and you always spawn every 3rd wave" rather than "On some modes you end on 12, others 15, etc and that on these you spawn every three waves but on those every four". Sure it can be learned by why? If making the game take a long time is so important, we can just make the bots have so much HP that you have to spend a long time killing them. (I don't want to do that but it makes a point.)

The last point I want to make is regarding spawning every three waves. The most boring part of the game for me is when you die. If you happen to die right after spawn, you are probably going to be dead for four waves unless there are enough people with tomes on the server to spawn you in. Cutting one wave out of that might not sound like much but I think it is a step in the right direction. My counter to the argument that this will make it too easy is that again, we can make the bots kill you more easily. You might die more but you won't stay dead for as long. More time on the battlefield and more challenge.

[Looter]

For the waves that have currently on one troop type, I would like to see multiple ones, some ranged support[for normal] thrown in or healers appearing alongside those waves. The presence of more nord healers appearing not just on random waves would increase the difficulty if not dealt with swiftly.

As to the number of waves I agree with cutting the first few waves of normal, those were a waste of time anyway.

[Kip]

The new spawn code does allow for more Nord types on challenge waves. I could see adding in a couple support Nords. Good suggestion.

Edit: Before anyone says we are making challenge waves mixed waves, this could be just a few of one extra type. Not a big mix in one wave.

[Winter]

Has anyone else ever really wanted to see Heavy Battle Priests mixed in with the Jotne wave? :3

[DR.]

With making it harder more armor sure (rip kiting)

Ik it not the same topic but I would like to see new waves put in like 

Siege Master w18 would be cool may even need to heal lol.

They don't need to be boss waves to make it interesting

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The new spawn code does allow for more Nord types on challenge waves. I could see adding in a couple support Nords. Good suggestion.

Edit: Before anyone says we are making challenge waves mixed waves, this could be just a few of one extra type. Not a big mix in one wave.

Has anyone else ever really wanted to see Heavy Battle Priests mixed in with the Jotne wave? :3

 Every wave. Fun for all lol

[derJaeger]

i would not say that Rag should be harder on Public because There are not much runs on Rag and the runs mostly wipe at wave 12 or 16 or 14 offcourse

but its nessesary to make it much harder for events

maby make a special event mod with every wave 100+ bots (if servers are not to laggy than) and maby start with Loke as first spawn wave and make some new Harder bosses than Odin O=) or give him his horse back ;D

whatever i think normal with 12 waves fine and hard with 15/16 (depens on spwan after 3 or 4 waves) Rag will be fine i think

about cav its realy annoing it takes houres and the loot/exp are very low pleas balance cav so that you have maby same whene you do a hard run/runs in the time you need

i also would like to see Healer are ranged person (maby just give the Prist some Obsidian Daggers to throw) so the Ranged also get some Heal ;P

and maby make some inviselbel Tricksters they spawn behind you for the new event mod ;D

[[ASSASSINE]]

I like the idea of a run taking shorter time, 15 waves and every 3 a spawn sounds good. 
I would like to remind, that Ragnarok was always supposed to be a real challange, only the best teams should be able to finish. This was the reason it was implemented, so it should be alot harder! This game needs to offer a challenge. For public runs normal and Hard are fine.

[Who-]

Buff Varangian Guardsmen and give them their own wave.