1.5.1 Client Release

[Sargent Q]

You are assuming that it still drops there. Nothing has been looted since the patch except for 1 DWP. And Wulfsbane is not 3 hero's. Aventurier cannot use it. Basing what stats should be off of where something drops at one moment in time is a VERY bad idea.

[Kriegstofu]

makes sense. but there is atm no senti and aventurier only sword?

[DR.]

You are assuming that it still drops there.  Nothing has been looted since the patch except for 1 DWP.  And Wulfsbane is not 3 hero's.  Aventurier cannot use it.  Basing what stats should be off of where something drops at one moment in time is a VERY bad idea.

Al tho some things i could guess and with that guess have a idea of what else that bot could drop eg.

Mjolnir = Thor
Ragnar's Wrath = King Ragnar
All Bots that had Vals dropped it.
...
The rest we can find out. 

Maybe Vgs is in the drop tables now to bad no one wants it... rip

makes sense. but there is atm no senti and aventurier only sword?

Each 1h proficient hero needs a dedicated sword that is better than the swords usable by multiple heros. Eg. Excalibur for Legio, Steel Stinger for Sentinel, Rebellion for Aventurier. I agree, there should be a sword that is usable by Aventurier and Sentinel but it shouldn't be Rebellion. There is two swords usable by both Legio and Sentinel, perhaps one of these could be changed.

Disco is spot on here.  I'm hoping for a Legionnaire and Aventurier sword in the near future so that it is 2 and 2.

[DR.]

Well i have access to Pok and Mangler and using both on rag i cant even tell the difference? 
On normal i can as it less blunt on Pok but more pierce with Mangler. 

Rather than this update
Pike of Kings - Lock to Pike Hero, +5 spd, +4b
Mangler - +5 spd, +2p

Maybe this to make them more diffent form each other.
Pike of Kings - Lock to Pike Hero, +5 spd, +2p
Mangler - +3 spd, +5+p

I think you have said this before that Mangler is the Hero locked version of Navel but makes no sense then that Pok would be the same just about when it "tr4 ish" and has 2 modes vs Manglers 1 to add the Hero lock buff thing.

[LordChaos]

Well i have access to Pok and Mangler and using both on rag i cant even tell the difference? 
On normal i can as it less blunt on Pok but more pierce with Mangler. 

Rather than this update
Pike of Kings - Lock to Pike Hero, +5 spd, +4b
Mangler - +5 spd, +2p

Maybe this to make them more diffent form each other.
Pike of Kings - Lock to Pike Hero, +5 spd, +2p
Mangler - +3 spd, +5+p

I think you have said this before that Mangler is the Hero locked version of Navel but makes no sense then that Pok would be the same just about when it "tr4 ish" and has 2 modes vs Manglers 1 to add the Hero lock buff thing.

I aggree with Woody on that, the mangler should be the strongest weapon in NI technically or the second strongest slashing weapon in NI, depending how you want to place the Zweihander compared to Marauder. The Marauder should deal a great amount of damage sometimes even more than the Zweihanders, which is also why they have so little armor. It wouldn't make sense that a t4 weapon does almost an equal amount of damage, meanwhile a class is being specialized for it with some hero locked weapon(s?) for that class being under or equal the t4 ones.

[Winter]

One day I will understand the fascination with the phrase "it doesn't make sense." I disagree that the Pike of Kings and Mangler are currently equal. You are correct in stating that the Mangler is supposed to be better, but honestly 57p is already a little stronger than 48b. The 15% difference in armor penetration is compared to an 18% higher damage. I steered away from increasing the pierce damage of the Pike of Kings to keep it from having even higher damage over the Jormungandr, a weapon that still only has superiority in its impressive length. If anything, I'd look more at increasing the speed of the Mangler to 99 like the Naval Glaive - its more direct competitor - as they are both slashing weapons rather than a weapon meant primarily for stabbing.

Edit: to give more information on the 15% extra armor penetration - it is definitely less effective than 18% higher damage on almost every bot. 15% additional armor penetration only reaches 15% (or higher) extra damage through penetration against bots with very high armor, namely Odin, Loke, Siege Masters, Jotnes, and anything wearing a Prince Helm or Valsgarde, against many of which both would bounce anyways. Against other bots, the the armor penetration results in only 5-8% additional damage through penetration. This means that the Mangler ranges from 8 to 13% more damage than the Pike of Kings on almost every bot other than those previously mentioned, where it ranges from 1-3% more effective, not including situations where they would both bounce, leading to them being equally ineffective.

Those numbers are based on a Marauder and use common Nord armors such as the Valsgarde, Heavy Huscarl, Siege Master set, Jotne set, Einherjar standard armor, Loke's set, Nord Chosen standard armor, Nord standard Kuyak, and Huscarl set. The armors of peasants are doubtlessly even more in favor of the Mangler, but are inconsequential as they will most likely die in one hit anyways.

[DR.]

I was asking more of a change then a buff if any thing. That was my conplaint that pok and mangler feel almost the same as having 97speed and not cut.

Making it faster that would be grate but all 4 main pikes are now 97 speed+ (mangler navel jorm and pok) I would rather see magler be more diverse/different and be the old 92-96 speed and be able to 1hit some things.

Maybe that a job for a new pike idk.

[Winter]

I would rather see magler be more diverse/different and be the old 92-96 speed and be able to 1hit some things.

Maybe that a job for a new pike idk.

Maybe.  We'll go over it.

[LordChaos]

Please, make the Polehammer usable by commando + aswell. <3

[Kriegstofu]

does only the avenger got a change or the vindicator aswell?