Legendaries and the average green drop.

[burnnt]

The OP mentions that legendaries are basicly not dropping but goes onto house craftables from there . What about discussing the other half of his post ?

I would like to know what is considered affordable for a new player ? I am a new player that has grinded for more hours than i care to think about and there was nothing that felt affordable while lvling my 1st character. I couldnt afford sks and grinder on my inf till t4.

I feel like there is a ceiling for a newer player that is near impposible to break through. As far as a infantry goes any armor past trans is prohibitly expensive , for a pikeman its anything past heavy plated. That pattern continues for the other two classes as well. Thats not even getting into weapons.

Also what about the casuals that play ? What chance do they have to compete and make a real contribution to a server with geared experienced players ?

As far as legendaries dropping, they are basically a myth to many players now . I dont think most players even actually expect to see one drop.

The purpose of high teir craftables was to get close to legendaries but the lack of crafting supplies makes them nearly as hard to obtain for a new player. Most players that are very active will likely agree that some adjustment to the green crafting materials are needed.

[Unknown_Soldier]

I agree with you but then I would be a hippocrate as a Hired Assassin dropped me a Wormbane. And I have at least 300 hours in so yeah it takes time but its worth it.

[Ragnash]

So, I am not going to go into my opinion on this matter as I don't have 6hrs to spare.

I am just going to point people to a couple of things Burnnt and Shagz said. People are ignoring the house craftables here. The majority of the house craftables are BETTER than legendaries, so why would you want a legendary when a house craftable is achievable and better?

There is an area of concern of how a new player and even a social player can hope to achieve getting a decent house craftable, I imagine the balancing act here is very hard to get right.

I'd love to see someone play a total of around 15hrs a week devote every drop and cent they get into going for 1 house craftable for the period of 1 month and actually see if it is achievable.

Anyway, without going into my lengthy opinion on the subject. just thought I would point those out.

Continue.

[burnnt]

In response to the house craftables I dont think there are too many that are actually better than a legendary. Perhaps you can argue that if your taking into account damage type, but isn't that only because there's no legendary counter part? Like I said I could be wrong, just trying to give some counter points to keep the conversation going.

[madjsoh]

So, I am not going to go into my opinion on this matter as I don't have 6hrs to spare.

I am just going to point people to a couple of things Burnnt and Shagz said. People are ignoring the house craftables here. The majority of the house craftables are BETTER than legendaries, so why would you want a legendary when a house craftable is achievable and better?

There is an area of concern of how a new player and even a social player can hope to achieve getting a decent house craftable, I imagine the balancing act here is very hard to get right.

I'd love to see someone play a total of around 15hrs a week devote every drop and cent they get into going for 1 house craftable for the period of 1 month and actually see if it is achievable.

Anyway, without going into my lengthy opinion on the subject. just thought I would point those out.

Continue.

i cant help but agree most of what you're addressing here Ragnash. as a new player myself i feel the only way i could afford these house craftables is for me to randomly come into a large sum of money. so to do that i will look to legendarys and i wont stop doing so as they are the only way of getting anywhere fast in this game

in regards to your your question on the 15hr's challange let me give you a taste of my experience:
played about 3 months with over 15 hours a week hours played, total worth to show= 1.5 mill (i dont think i will be crafting any house craftables soon)


heres my solution:

bosses dont necessarily have to drop ONLY legendaries but good god lets have them drop something. whether its marketplace gear, quantities of mats (2 lumps, 5 bear fur, 100 twisted string etc etc). people dont want to spend their hard time grinding for nothing but a small lump of xp.

[Unknown_Soldier]

Or have them drop more gold. But I like your idea. I have helped with tons of boss kills and I have never got a drop from them. Its disheartening for new players.

[Harlaus]

I guess my only complaint is that when a player complains about the drop rate, legendary or not, they are told to go to Ragnarok because that has the higher drop rate.

[2013-06-07 16:50:08] <+Ragnash> hah
[2013-06-07 16:50:29] <+Ragnash> As YunYun said, he died about one millisecond afterwards.
[2013-06-07 16:50:48] <@Barristan> Will look at the Ragnarok loot system again... thought we fixed it
[2013-06-07 16:51:05] <@Barristan> But the legendary items have a very high drop rate compared to the other modes... so there's that

This is fine(though given the current history of drops for the last few months, it's fair to say it's not entirely true). Higher level players, which Ragnarok was designed for, should be able to do well in it, and they do. Odin has been slayed many, many times recently. As more and more high level players go to Rag whenever possible to attain these drops, they leave a larger part of players who are tier 3 to wipe in hard mode, meaning they cannot get any drops besides HM/SW/HC on the early waves(and they probably don't even get these). This is even worse for normal mode. Before Ragnarok tier 4 players would do prince several times, meaning players just starting out could level up at a reasonable pace, get a few HM/HC on wave 16 and level up, getting themselves better gear and this would carry over to hard mode, when they would play with several tier 4 players and be able to reach tier 4 themselves quickly as well, and thanks to the fact they were getting these drops like HM, WoG, maybe even a water or lump,  they could make themselves more useful and so on until they became that well equipped tier 4 character that lower levels in normal mode could use to level up and so on and so on.

When these drops do not drop, and when high leveled players do not play normal this process of leveling up and becoming useful is ruined. The fact Hard mode is as easy as it is means tier 4/Hero characters have no reason to play normal, it doesn't give valuable drops wave after wave, the XP and gold gained is tiny, a few waves of hard mode currently gives about the same or more. This means fewer and fewer players are hitting level 32 at a reasonable pace, and when they do hit it they lack decent gear to make themselves useful to a team of hero classes and tier 4's because they don't get a team that can help them hit the valuable waves(Vet pikes, Chosen). Currently bear fur is going for 25k each or so, scales for 50k or so. A tier three crossbowmen needs around 250k to buy a powerful Xbow, a Seargant needs 100k for banded mail, 70k for SKS and so on and so on. They can't afford these. When they get to hardmode with marketplace gear, all they can do is leach because 4 or 5 hero's have everything handled. They don't gain the additional gold from killing the nord, and they don't get any drops so they are relying on marketplace gear, then they hit tier 4 and maybe they can afford a craftable armor or weapon. So they buy it, and then they have 0 gold left and they have to leech for another few weeks to get another low tier craftable for their class.


I don't mind high level players who already have decent gear or a fair amount of money and mats don't get drops every minute on Rag, because those drops are usually worth 50k,100k,300k and they get a large amount of gold from killing the nord, and large amounts of assist xp. The issue is the low drop rate on Normal and Hard mode hurts the lower level players without good gear more than it does the higher level and hero classed players who don't need these drops as much as the others. The economy for a lower level player is difficult, they rely on being able to buy a higher levels old gear cheaply, but without a large number of drops these items are being crafted less and less as those players who normally sell them are trying to buy/craft house craftable items and so they either sell these items only for Ragnarok exclusive drops(Eagle feathers/Damascus), or high wave Hard mode drops(Waters and arguably lumps) that these players don't reach often, and loot even less, or for pure gold, which these low level players have a near impossible time getting, since they can't slash effectively and usually a hero or tier 4 will do it instead, and they need to put what assist XP they get into support class and melee/ranged xp.

The real result of a low drop rate is a frustrating experience for low level players and hindrance, but not a large one, for more well geared players. I feel the drop rate should be adjusted for the sake of these players who rely on it to get anywhere. If not, they rely on having a large and wealthy house to get anywhere in the game. For example, VLKA players loan their gear to house mates very often, I believe [UK]_UnitedKillerz does as well. This enables the few in those houses to use good gear, but such players will still be unable to get their own gear and be useful to their house and their team on any given server without the aid of their house in crafting them because gaining gold and crafting materials is so difficult currently. Most of the high tier gear, field medic boxes, Master surgeons kits, tomes/barrel and what not are not being crafted by individual players, but through an entire house effort. This is partly because it is difficult for individual players to craft them on their own because they can't gain the items needed. They need 5 or more players to craft them in any decent amount of time. Imagine how frustrating it must be for a lower level player to try to craft their own gear, even buying is only slightly cheaper.


I know the issue is not the drop rate entirely, but it does seem the easiest to deal with and like it will have the largest individual effect. Another way would be to increase the drop rates of low level materials like Sturdy Wood and Heavy cloth while making them used in larger amounts for high level recipes, for example level 11+ in the personal crafting jobs and in every house crafting recipe. Because these two materials are looted on wave one of Hard mode even level 32 players could get them, and making them used in larger amounts would mean even players who have several hundred of them would need to buy them in large amounts to craft enough basic tier 4 gear or house craftable items. This would ensure low level players have a way of making money. If this happens the drop rate would not need to be changed to accommodate high level players while lower levels could still progress and become wealthy.

[Niezdara]

I was wondering if the whole mechanism of getting legendaries could be changed a bit. Right now its completely random - there is small chance to get them, which is furthermore "divided" by the amount of people alive. I shouldn't complain since I've got my first (and only) legendary before I had reached T4, but still I think its just too random. It would be better if amount of time put into playing also count.

There are faction points and they are useless right now. How about giving players a gift from the king when they reach certian amount of FPs? Those points could be gained mainly from bosses (all kind) as an assist and for killing (a quest with cooldown, so there will be no point in killing them often), and of course form quests but in much smaller amounts.

When player gain enough FPs, he would complete a quest and as a reward gain a random gift - it could be a legendary or some valuable rare materials. Every subsequent rank would give better range of gifts or alternatively the player would decide when to ask a king for a reward (so the more FPs accumulated, the better range of gifts).

This would require some changes to quest and ranks. Also decisions about how much FPs the bosses give and how much is needed to get a gift, would have to be made.

Lets say a nord prince gives you 500 FPs for assisting and another 500 for killing (once a week). You need 20000 FPs to have a chance for a legendary (but you may as well end up with some rare and valuable mats instead).

[Punishment™]

That actually sounds like a really interresting idea.

[Sinister Soldier]

Niezdara, then there is a problem that nobody wants to shield or being medic, because they want to kill the nords to get the FPs or do you mean they get the FPs in the assist, with your idea?