NI, is it worth the grind?

[madjsoh]

Huh? Harlaus, you're in a house now?

thought he was a trickster, will go back and edit

[Harlaus]

no my opinion has not changed on green drops, but that was clear from the thread. And no i cant tell when and if the drop rates have been increased or decreased, that is far from the point (point being that the green drop rates are low no matter how much the devs fluctuate them. just ask your fellow house mates im sure they'll echo this as they are some of the people who have raised this issue) you harp on my lack of data which i have already acknowledged, and request impossible figures.....i can't think of 2 let alone 3 different groups in NI that can complete 252 rag runs on a regular basis can you?

Then why bother stating that "opinions change" if yours hasn't, since the purpose of this thread was no doubt to state your opinion on the drop system. And no, it is not far from the point. For all you know, the drop rate was doubled from last week. It could have been increased ten times over. Saying "it's low" isn't an argument, it isn't even a good statement. What is "low" to you? What is too much? What do you want from the system? Just saying "more stuff" is as pointless as saying 252 runs without any real data to make conclusions from. But, since you said "are low no matter how much the devs fluctuate them", I am forced to assume that even a 100% drop rate would be too low for you. That is all I'm getting here, "too low too low too low". Nothing valuable, nothing useful, just complaining. Complaining does nothing. It will never do anything. And on to the next. What house mates? I don't have any. I know several people who have raised this issue though, and they provide nothing more than you have here. That is to say, nothing. I'm aware that many people complain, and that to date no one has provided a large set of data to justify it. Continuing, yes I do harp on your lack of data. This entire thread might be proven pointless if you took the time to collect it. If you want it changed, giving a reason other than scare tactics (The mod will die! Veterans will leave! We'll keep complaining!) would be very useful. Since this has been mentioned before in threads about drop rates, and since those who complain still refuse to collect any data, I'll assume it's because any data would prove them wrong. Since that is the case, I have no reason or need to listen to things like "252 runs buff please". For all you and I know, someone could have gotten 5 waters each time. See what I am saying? Your experience alone will never be sufficient. You could be the most unlucky player in the world, and that would explain this. That is why you need data for me to listen to this whining. Finally, it doesn't matter if anyone or no one can do "252 runs". Honestly, it makes no difference. If anything, the frequency of your Odin killing makes an argument that the drop rate should be lower, since it is so easy and you can grind it without difficulty.

August 15th, you said if more legendaries don't drop the mod will die

yes more legendaries have dropped and i have acknowledged that in one of my responses, now a new issue has arised and it is being addressed here.

furthermore the point raised about legendaries was not in regards to their drop rates which i believe to be "OK" but, rather in regards to the type of person who gets them

Which is further addressed as you whining and moaning for months about how your special group isn't getting drops. They drop. Most of these drop in runs where your special group is not a part of the run. Most of the legendaries gotten by FK for example have been in their runs or their events.  And then, of course, you go back to AFK/Leachers. Once more then, I will say get an admin. Stop whining about things that you have no reason to whine about. You have every chance and opportunity to ensure that in your special groups runs, you get the drops. Get 16 players if it bothers you so much, since clearly anything less makes you all quit for the night. Get an admin for AFK/Leachers. If you don't, I will once more say it, it is your fault. There is nothing in your argument other than you are lazy, greedy, and elitist. That is nothing worth listening too in a serious manner.

No player, none of them at all, have done "months of ragnarok runs" only to get a hardened leather. Once more, collect some data on this and don't listen to "well I think", or "I'm pretty sure", or these exaggerations of the truth. As before, there is nothing to address here, as nothing real is claimed.

in reagrds to this one, perhaps you should have a word with your house leader who was in fact the victim to this drop system. exaggeration on not he is obviously unhappy with the current drop rates as well and claims that it is not worth a month of NI to get 1 water.

What house leader? Given the next statement, I assume you are talking about Dan. Dan is clearly the whiniest and the one who exaggerates the most. There is not a single person who, in one month of daily ragnarok runs, has received only a hardened leather. Not you, not him, not anyone. If you think anything else, you are wrong. End of discussion that does not happen. Deal with it. Anyways, since you admit exaggeration is here, lets go on. One persons happiness with the system does not matter. No one cares. At all. Ever. If one person is unhappy, he can take a break, or keep playing. There is no reason to change an entire system to suit the wishes of the player who complains the most out of everyone. He has, like you and everyone else who complains about drops, provided no evidence.I don't care about opinion, his, yours, or mine. What matters here is evidence, that is the only thing you can get to support a change. So far, none has been provided and I doubt that any ever will be. Anyways, given the fact I have heard of many drops of waters, lumps, and other materials dropping more than once a month, the claim is not useful. Perhaps you should spend time gathering this evidence instead of posting with "I think", or "They will leave!" or "People don't like it!".

Yes, which means nothing to counter what I said. All of you whine collectively then switch the next server to Swadian town or Swadian Castle and do it again. Night after night. No one who was whined about the drops in any of the several threads that were posted recently had anything to offer in terms of facts or a real solution. "Buff please or I quit" isn't an idea or a solution to your perceived issue. Anyways, since many players do loot green drops and legendaries, I feel confident in saying this is not an issue and no system should be changed to suit you or these "Veteran" players.

albeit lacking in a solution this thread offers facts to the drop rates a few months ago http://forum.nordinvasion.com/index.php?...160.0.html the solution as has been echoed in the various threads complaining about drops rates is put simple "buff please" you claim many players do loot green legendaries yet you fall prey to the same accusations you have set out against me "facts or your point is invalid" simply saying that you have no evidence and you can't be sure of anything is a double edged sword and it can be worked or both sides of the argument.

Well, that thread was one person, using an inconsistent number of runs, nords killed, time and other factors which invalidate any and all results he gets. One person saying "Well I did waves 1-8 of hard and got X, then waves 1-20 of ragnarok and got X, Y and Z. Buff please", is no more evidence than what you have provided. I guess since you said I lack evidence, I will provide it. The AH, Asking players, being a server and seeing it announced, and personal experience have made the point that yes, green materials do drop. As for legendaries, the Legendary Item Thread, wonderfully maintained by Winter, has the information that, since September, 21 legendaries have dropped. I have evidence, you do not. That is all that matters. "Buff please" is not a solution. It is a gut reaction that makes you feel better, but may indeed have many unintended and horrible side effects. A solution is detailed, with logic and reasoning to support it, with notes on the consequences and suggestions on how to deal with the negative side effects. "Buff please" does not meet that.

i'll respond to your first point again as the answer was incorrect

1: People in my group don't loot legendaries and I don't like it.

first off your heading boldly states that i would dislike for anyone not from the group of players listed in your post to loot a legendary. are you serious? that is completely insulting. as a matter of fact i am more than happy for someone to loot a legendary but in my opinion they have to deserve it. a legendary item is exactly that LEGENDARY. therefore shouldn't it go to someone who has performed equally as legendarily? you believe that i only want veteran players to succeed and obtain legendaries. you of all people must understand that there is some gear prerequisite for the challenges of ragnarok mode (i have been in lobbys before where admins have kicked players for low tier gear) and yet you claim otherwise in your post? i don't understand you are an admin and are enforcing something you preach against? and NO i have not as of yet defined such a system that rewards the deserving over the leeches however that was the point of me making this thread....to gauge ideas from the community.

Yes, you say deserving. Once more, the only thing gathered from your posts, and from your statements in game, is that those who deserve a loot are usually Wealthy, Well geared, players that are almost exclusively in your group of "Veteran" players. You don't ever define deserving, so I really have only those to go on. Maybe if you defined it, instead of leaving it as something so general as "Deserving" which can have several entirely different meanings to different people, this would not occur. It may be insulting, but that is the truth I have witnessed from you, and still welcome you defining it, as I included in the note section of my first post. Your continued refusal to do so leads me to believe I am correct.

if i have stated this then i will admit the injustice of this statement however i do not see a quote of myself stating that.

Well, if you want me too.

(some gear is required for example a dep shield is more of a hinderance than a help on ragnarock let alone tier one armour which your team mates kill themselves upon).
...ragnarok was only for the "cream of the crop" in terms of NI players...
Filling roughly 9 out of the 16 slots the rest who joined were poorly equipped for the challenge that is ragnarok mode.
and why should the high level players have to carry the redshirts?
however NI is not simply about kill,kill,kill. each player must bring something to the team. be it a simple medic box or a short heavy barricade a player who does not bring these items in to the team are no doubt less helpful

These were the most recent ones. These only lead to the conclusion that to contribute, you must have good gear, which is something that is associated with wealth. You flat out quit the game when you had to play with players who were perhaps not as knowledgeable about ragnarok mode, and they were not rich enough to afford good gear. You state that high level players should not have to carry redshirts, which translates to high level players should not have to play with new or poor players. There is nothing but elitism in your posts, and nothing to suggest anything other than what I have said is true. You want a system that separates the wealthy from the poor and such a system will inevitably create an unbridgeable gap between them.

in regards to your hero vs fresh T4 argument, i will level with you. sure let a players skills on the battlefield speak for itself. however NI is not simply about kill,kill,kill. each player must bring something to the team. be it a simple medic box or a short heavy barricade a player who does not bring these items in to the team are no doubt less helpful (try doing ragnarok without cades/heals). and before you come back and say that even a person who brings in a tome etc can be a hindrance i want you to know i agree with you on that. but in life you have to work hard  to get where and what you want. shouldn't the same rules apply here?

This paragraph makes no sense. You say gear is a determinate, and that players must contribute in that and killing, and yet agree that just because someone brings in a tome, does not mean they contribute. This paragraph is useless and only serves to contradict yourself and itself. But the last sentence does have some merit, so I will address it. In real life you do have to work hard to get where and what you want. That is called effort. Effort is not detectable in mount and blade. The same rules cannot apply because they can't exist in this system. There is no way to tell who is trying hard and who is not. Maybe he is just really bad at the game, or he doesn't understand English and therefor can't understand what you are saying? He isn't trying any less hard, he just doesn't get as good of results for it.

Once more, there is no system yet proposed that can rival the fairness of random chance. I am waiting to hear of one, but I have not.

[madjsoh]

Then why bother stating that "opinions change" if yours hasn't, since the purpose of this thread was no doubt to state your opinion on the drop system

i am not the only one with an opinion here and other peoples opinions are often subject to change.

once again in regards to your arguments over drop rates. people aren't happy with them you even note yourself that there have been threads of a similar nature for a long time. take a second to read what the players are asking in these threads...is there a "lower the drop rates thread anywhere?". it is obvious that the drop rates a too low for the community's liking (maybe except you). yes you try to stress the changing nature of drop rates and how they cannot be accurately described. and yet here you are demanding exact data. the answer to your argument is no an exact idea of the drop rates cannot be given. however what is apparent is the current distaste amongst the community when it comes to green drops what do they want? more drops when do they want them? now. you also accuse me of exhibit scare tactics. forgive me if im wrong but when the people aren't happy with something they disconnect themselves from it. no players no mod simple. if that scares you then im sorry but sometimes we have to face the real world (you can't deny that more and more people are going AFG hell one guy even expresses the issues raised here as a reason for his leave). and this business about getting nothing useful from my posts...and how they offer no help or solution to the problems addressed. that in itself is entire hypocrisy, i haven't heard a single suggestion from you about how to solve these problems. in short im sorry that i don't have all the data at hand, but denying the problem completely because of a lack of this data is not helpful at all.

Which is further addressed as you whining and moaning for months about how your special group isn't getting drops

im not even going to bother quoting you on the rest of that paragraph as it is just plain bigotry. However i will offer you some stats as you love them so much, (14 rag events 11-12 legendaries) compare that with the 252 rag runs...a fair system im sure. on back on the topic of afk/leechers would you have me believe that "hey it's only illegal unless you get caught?" you forget that it takes time to boot up a game let alone find an admin willing to do so before a boss wave (as a leecher/afk is determined over a period of time not a split second)

What house leader? Given the next statement, I assume you are talking about Dan. Dan is clearly the whiniest and the one who exaggerates the most. There is not a single person who, in one month of daily ragnarok runs, has received only a hardened leathe

where is YOUR stats and evidence for this one? and to clarify i never admitted that he was exaggerating, however i can't prove it's truthfulness neither can you prove against it.

Well, if you want me too.

now you assume that a player who owns a dep shield and tier 1 armour has to be poor?, that was merely an example. a rich player could just as easily equip those items and they too would be of less help than someone else to the team. there is no quote of me saying that the high tiered players should not have to help level the red shirts (in fact i was questioning someone's response in regards to private servers being re-introduced "and why should the high tier players have to help the redshirts" i believe it was more along those lines). you do some translations and end up with the conclusion that high level players should not have to help level the redshirts... why have a level cap on hard and ragnarok? lets remove it shall we because that's were all the elitist's hang out. as you can see segregation is present in NI whether you like it or not.

There is no way to tell who is trying hard and who is not. Maybe he is just really bad at the game, or he doesn't understand English and therefor can't understand what you are saying? He isn't trying any less hard, he just doesn't get as good of results for it.

that's preposterous, i'll go put my shield up in a corner and watch you tube videos  after all im not trying just as hard but i get worse results (the fact is they're better of for it) the point being....yes it is hard to tell leech from hero but there are many ways to circumvent leechers without going to the effort of logging into irc and waiting for an admin to launch the game before the leecher gets lucky. Usain offered the idea of having an assassin spawn behind afkers this i realise does not solve the entire problem in regards to leechers but it is a start so building upon usain's sugestion i will offer a sought of solution...

upon the instance of an afker perhaps a unique boss could appear behind them and attempt to kill them. let's call it a random event (yes it is copied from another game) the players alive who are not afking could then proceed to kill this unique mob for the chance at some unique rewards (thus compensating the team somewhat for the afk leech in their ranks)


i welcome you to post again, but i can sense your opinions are already made so i won't be trying to change them as this has gone on for long enough

[Buttercup]

[Image: berneydidnotread.gif?1318992465]
And to the request: NAAAAHHH.

[Sudoku_killer]

plsss use spoilers  ;D

[Benschie]

Harlaus let me just point out this was meant to be a discussion or debate if you will... not a slur campaign like you seem to think it is for some strange reason, I mean how offensive can you be, constantly calling players (myself included im sure when you say "Your group") whiners among things, Why have you taken such offense to this thread?? It is a issue that is constantly brought back into light so obviously there is a issue here that needs to be answered by a DEV and not other people talking for them. 

Also while I'm typing about devs and talking for them, let me just point out a fact for you harlaus.
you seem to think that you know what the devs do behind the scenes on the mod constantly talking for them about things you have absolutely NO clue about...

you should know that drop rates are being altered on a weekly if not daily basis to fit the idea of the dev team.

There is no possible way you know this...

How about we try to keep it civilised from now on and if you have any major objections to this thread i suggest you do what mad josh said in the first place so you dont offend people like myself and alot of the other players he is talking about...

Once again I mean no offence to anyone, and if someone does take offence i invite them to come forward via PM and discuss it with me. I also understand that the devs work extremely hard both on the game and in their own personal lives and to them I might seem ungrateful ,for that to happen is not my intention as personally I believe they have created something truly great in NordInvasion. However it just needs....tweaking and I understand this takes time and "patience  " is key, but, for many players this is too little too late.

Sadly for me most of my close NI friends already boarded that too little too late train long ago....

edit*
I mean madjosh has done this in the most polite way possible only to have his thread bombed by you and it was a big harlaus rage bomb at that.

can we please have this thread kept on topic and not aimed at the players its talking about as I too would like to see a honest answer from a dev before they lock it because its gotten way out of hand

[Legend]

I will NOT write another wall of text , just shortly some real facts:

- Devs stated in a similiar feature request , they ARE reworking the whole dropping system.

-There WERE requests for a lower droprate

-Opinions are unique and the dignity of a human is untouchable. Keep your discussing reasonable and out of insulting or swearing or bullying players , or i will lock this topic.

Besides that , i tend to agree with Harlaus on most of his points brought. Stop complaining and wait for the new drop system as they already have stated things will change.

[evildan]

Just to summarize.

I believe this thread is more to do with the players frustration that rates/reward system have been allowed to continue being this low for this amount of time and just boiled over finally. I mentioned  in February that the rates were way too low. A lot of players acknowledged this back then and gave the mod 4-5 more months, praying that the next patch would change things then eventually gave up and left. Now we are almost a year on and have finally got confirmation that things will change. I think these posts are more of a cry for help to get the mod back on track as they love it dear, the community was buzzing over a year ago and sometimes having 7-8 full servers.

Like fuck it doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice things are at issue. Its got to the stage where green drops are so rare that people do not want to play with certain players any more or leechers or non helpers. Why waste your time playing with people who annoy for little or nothing and then they are rewarded. Where as before everyone would get something and wouldn't give a shit who they played with for that reason. This has now caused a rift in the community all down to  something as stupid as drops.

[madjsoh]

Just to summarize.

I believe this thread is more to do with the players frustration that rates/reward system have been allowed to continue being this low for this amount of time and just boiled over finally. I mentioned  in February that the rates were way too low. A lot of players acknowledged this back then and gave the mod 4-5 more months, praying that the next patch would change things then eventually gave up and left. Now we are almost a year on and have finally got confirmation that things will change. I think these posts are more of a cry for help to get the mod back on track as they love it dear, the community was buzzing over a year ago and sometimes having 7-8 full servers.

Like fuck it doesn't take a rocket scientist to notice things are at issue. Its got to the stage where green drops are so rare that people do not want to play with certain players any more or leechers or non helpers. Why waste your time playing with people who annoy for little or nothing and then they are rewarded. Where as before everyone would get something and wouldn't give a shit who they played with for that reason. This has now caused a rift in the community all down to  something as stupid as drops.

spot on!

[Sudoku_killer]

If those so called pro players are so selective about their  team mates they can organize  event with whoever they think worthy of playing with them
Then they wont finally  complain about somebody who got more luck
Just saying