Halberdier Change

[Irolltwenties]

Just give Halberdiers 9 shielding like Pavise Champions and give them access to a house crafted shield like Small Dragon Kite.  Voila!  A useful class that is actually worth 750K.

[Aleks]

Halabardier is good at the moment giving him 9 shielding would be bad idea cuz would make him over-powered as a shielder. Halabardier is a good slasher with a good armor , shielding skills would be useless for him becasue of his slash power imo.

[Irolltwenties]

Halabardier is good at the moment giving him 9 shielding would be bad idea cuz would make him over-powered as a shielder. Halabardier is a good slasher with a good armor , shielding skills would be useless for him becasue of his slash power imo.

Then he is redundant.  Worse so than redundant because Marauder is a much much better slasher, so not only redundant but obsolete before he even gets out of the gate.  Pike range is your defensive advantage.  If you are dying at the slashing line as a Mara or Halb then you are too close.

Also in that case if giving him shielding skills would make him overpowered then take away Pavise Champion shielding skills because then they are too good at too many things.  By your own reasoning your argument is invalid.

Also in regards to Pavise Champions as far as period; You do not hold a Pavise in a shielding line.  You set it down and reload behind it.  They were too large and unwieldy to use as we use them in game.

[Corndog]

Halbardier is pikeman not commando.He need shielding only in emergency situation so 7 shield skill is enough.

give them access to a house crafted shield like Small Dragon Kite.  Voila!  A useful class that is actually worth 750K.

I think that house craftable shields is to much.But its a good point that halbardier should bring shields like SKS or LKS

[Irolltwenties]

Halbardier is pikeman not commando.He need shielding only in emergency situation so 7 shield skill is enough.

[quote author=Bearstronaut link=topic=37001.msg211886#msg211886 date=1419100570]
give them access to a house crafted shield like Small Dragon Kite.  Voila!  A useful class that is actually worth 750K.

I think that house craftable shields is to much.But its a good point that halbardier should bring shields like SKS or LKS
[/quote]

Again, then why is it so acceptable for Pavise to bring shields and shield better than a Commando?  I don't understand the reluctance to accept changes to Halberdier but Pavise Champions aren't given the slightest speculation.  Why are Pavise Champs the only odd man out who benefit from being so?  While Halberdiers and Rangers are worse at everything than both alternatives?

[Aleks]

[quote author=Corndog link=topic=37001.msg211903#msg211903 date=1419103438]
Halbardier is pikeman not commando.He need shielding only in emergency situation so 7 shield skill is enough.

[quote author=Bearstronaut link=topic=37001.msg211886#msg211886 date=1419100570]
give them access to a house crafted shield like Small Dragon Kite.  Voila!  A useful class that is actually worth 750K.

I think that house craftable shields is to much.But its a good point that halbardier should bring shields like SKS or LKS
[/quote]

Again, then why is it so acceptable for Pavise to bring shields and shield better than a Commando?  I don't understand the reluctance to accept changes to Halberdier but Pavise Champions aren't given the slightest speculation.  Why are Pavise Champs the only odd man out who benefit from being so?  While Halberdiers and Rangers are worse at everything than both alternatives?
[/quote]

Guy u don't understand , Pikeman its offensive char giving him shield skill would be totally useless who would use shield when on ground lay a good ranged weapon (DB , Twig or ruputer) or the very good slash weapon (naval , jogmuandur etc) Its like giving archer 10 shield skill... I understand giving him a 6 shield skills or 7 and acces to SKS and defender shield. There are 2 good shielder chars and its enough. Also halabardier has acces to better armors than maruder and peltast so makes him high surviveabilty than other pikeman hero classes.

[Greg]

Halbardier and ranger may seem useless to you as their skills are not directed for better team play but better survive ability. As ranger I find myself quite often with completely black health bar and I would be dead if not both my better armour and extra hp. That is the point of these classes, to survive longer while shooting/throwing and beeing able to tome or barrel if necessary (dead we will be useless), on the other hand we are still as good at our class skills as tiers 4 and it is enough (I can score more kills with my ranger than warden as I will stay alive longer).

[Irolltwenties]

[quote author=Bearstronaut link=topic=37001.msg211908#msg211908 date=1419103976]
[quote author=Corndog link=topic=37001.msg211903#msg211903 date=1419103438]
Halbardier is pikeman not commando.He need shielding only in emergency situation so 7 shield skill is enough.

[quote author=Bearstronaut link=topic=37001.msg211886#msg211886 date=1419100570]
give them access to a house crafted shield like Small Dragon Kite.  Voila!  A useful class that is actually worth 750K.

I think that house craftable shields is to much.But its a good point that halbardier should bring shields like SKS or LKS
[/quote]

Again, then why is it so acceptable for Pavise to bring shields and shield better than a Commando?  I don't understand the reluctance to accept changes to Halberdier but Pavise Champions aren't given the slightest speculation.  Why are Pavise Champs the only odd man out who benefit from being so?  While Halberdiers and Rangers are worse at everything than both alternatives?
[/quote]

Guy u don't understand , Pikeman its offensive char giving him shield skill would be totally useless who would use shield when on ground lay a good ranged weapon (DB , Twig or ruputer) or the very good slash weapon (naval , jogmuandur etc) Its like giving archer 10 shield skill... I understand giving him a 6 shield skills or 7 and acces to SKS and defender shield. There are 2 good shielder chars and its enough. Also halabardier has acces to better armors than maruder and peltast so makes him high surviveabilty than other pikeman hero classes.
[/quote]

I'm not your guy first of all.  Secondly you clearly do not understand.  I ask again why Pavise and not Halberdiers?  No one can answer this question logically.  A few more armor points on a linear scale and another point in Ironflesh is a piss poor excuse for a Hero class option.  Can we get some native English speakers in here?  There is an obvious language barrier.  Guy.

[Renji]

[quote author=Aleks link=topic=37001.msg211911#msg211911 date=1419104803]
[quote author=Bearstronaut link=topic=37001.msg211908#msg211908 date=1419103976]
[quote author=Corndog link=topic=37001.msg211903#msg211903 date=1419103438]
Halbardier is pikeman not commando.He need shielding only in emergency situation so 7 shield skill is enough.

[quote author=Bearstronaut link=topic=37001.msg211886#msg211886 date=1419100570]
give them access to a house crafted shield like Small Dragon Kite.  Voila!  A useful class that is actually worth 750K.

I think that house craftable shields is to much.But its a good point that halbardier should bring shields like SKS or LKS
[/quote]

Again, then why is it so acceptable for Pavise to bring shields and shield better than a Commando?  I don't understand the reluctance to accept changes to Halberdier but Pavise Champions aren't given the slightest speculation.  Why are Pavise Champs the only odd man out who benefit from being so?  While Halberdiers and Rangers are worse at everything than both alternatives?
[/quote]

Guy u don't understand , Pikeman its offensive char giving him shield skill would be totally useless who would use shield when on ground lay a good ranged weapon (DB , Twig or ruputer) or the very good slash weapon (naval , jogmuandur etc) Its like giving archer 10 shield skill... I understand giving him a 6 shield skills or 7 and acces to SKS and defender shield. There are 2 good shielder chars and its enough. Also halabardier has acces to better armors than maruder and peltast so makes him high surviveabilty than other pikeman hero classes.
[/quote]

I'm not your guy first of all.  Secondly you clearly do not understand.  I ask again why Pavise and not Halberdiers?  No one can answer this question logically.  A few more armor points on a linear scale and another point in Ironflesh is a piss poor excuse for a Hero class option.  Can we get some native English speakers in here?  There is an obvious language barrier.  Guy.
[/quote]
Let me elaborate for him... He says that there are 2 shielding classes in the game which is more than enough, and also he says that the access to good ranged weapons should suffice the class enough. He thinks it is useless and overpowered to give a halberdier an insane shield skill when he has access to also good slashing weapons in addition to the halberdier's throwing prowess.

basically what he is saying is that Halberdier is good enough in regards to other skirmishers.

[Chuckwagon]

I think Bearstronaut brings some really valid points to the table. Lets look at the three pike classes: One gets a throwing bonus, one gets a melee bonus, and one gets a....tanky bonus? Seems like a waste of 750K in my opinion but maybe my opinion sucks so lets compare other hero classes.
Infantry get a bonus to shielding, and one handed and two handed melee respectively. (and some throwing prof) X-Bows get a bonus to one handed melee, shooting, and shielding. Archers are pretty straightforward, they shoot stuff.
So why not take a underplayed and pretty useless class like Halberdier and make a hero class that is currently missing from the game and full of potential? We could even call it the Hoplite class if that helps everybody understand the concept. ...<3 Bilbo...
Simply put, a pole-arm class that has some extra armor and shield options and can be part of the shield wall while still having throwing prof for those 10 infantry on a server situations.
Last thing I will say is be open minded. I feel that this mod, as awesome as it is, could always use heaps of improvements but so many people shoot ideas down quickly because they don't understand it or they are adverse to change. Be positive mates!

Thanks, Chuckwagon