Kiting stuff, keep it here!

[DR.]

Tied by level as to what support you can bring in, and tied by level as to how good you can fight/shield.    Why can't I be a lvl 1 with maxed healing skill if I want to?

OK let say you could get tr4 at lvl 1 that a lot of normal runs

If it gives less than 15k xp per run that .... See my point

When it 150k xp just for tr4 I think it would be a most faster to lvl to 32 and play hard

But one thing I will say make Shc tr3

[Bobo]

Spoiler

Bobo compliments my post very well.  There are players here with multiple characters at hero level and all have reached that point through various methodologies.    You simply cannot categorize a kiter as being bad, whereas you probably have greater cause to cite the AFK player as being bad.

As bobo states,

higher level players may feel justified in getting the group to a higher wave faster (and thus earn more assist xp).  well that sort of sucks for the guy who is lvl 3 and not getting any xp at all, and those small xp help at that lvl.  He might make it up a higher waves, if he lives.

Spoiler

Now we're back to teamwork, or is it?  Let's say you're lvl 32 infantry; you just worked really hard and achieved that lvl WOOT!  You have no support skills and you pick a hard server with 15 players.  Tell me your role?  I'm waiting..... For 20 waves what will you do?  Many will answer - healer.  Good answer; who's bringing in the med kits? Archers and other ranged probably can serve a purpose behind a good shield wall.  Lvl 32 infantry?  hello?

Tied by level as to what support you can bring in, and tied by level as to how good you can fight/shield.    Why can't I be a lvl 1 with maxed healing skill if I want to?

Just to clarify:
But one gets assist XP, so he can level up, without necessarily having lots of kills. It's just enough to be close to the ones who make the kills. Same refers to drops. And the assist XP range is quite a wide area. So, if there is one strong player taking entire wave out by himself other players still get assist XP for themselves and in the same quantity. What they do not get is XP for their own kills if they make none.

[Soviet]

but kiting the only thing in NI that doesn't get incredibly boring after two years...

[[ASSASSINE]]

but kiting the only thing in NI that doesn't get incredibly boring after two years...

i agree, its been 9 days now could any developer please answer? dont wanne be rude or annoying, but alot of people would like to know.

[~CM~Snow_White/Nightmare]

I agree as well, why you wanna destroy NI? Cause of this map blockers (like invisible Walls on Swadian Overgrown) or a pair strings of Barrels on Old Shire.

Thank you for reading and Kind Regards,

Twisty

[Winter]

Although this isn't necessarily the official development team's stance on the subject, I do believe that I can explain some of the decisions the map making team has made.

Since the beginning, the maps have always been changing and evolving.  Old spots are blocked off and new ones are made.  The same is true of kiting paths.  This thread was made ages ago (over a full year! :O), and since then there have still been many kiters fully capable of kiting all of Hard mode and most of Ragnarok mode on their own, and several teams that are also capable of this.  As far as I can tell, the development team isn't trying to "kill" kiting any more than it is trying to "kill" barricading - it is just changing up the maps to keep the game a little more fresh and exciting.  Wouldn't it be boring if a map would be changed to be very easy and then just stay that way forever?  It would kind of defeat the purpose of playing on other maps until they were also made very easy, but then everything would just be very easy.  It makes more sense, in my opinion, to switch up maps and have some easy, some hard, and change the maps and spots every so often.  I enjoy kiting as well and have kited with several other people very recently on a few different maps with varying success.  It isn't like kiting is impossible now, the maps and kiting paths have just changed around a bit.  The easier ones become more difficult, the harder ones become easier, and new opportunities are made.

Hopefully this will aid some in understanding the reasons behind map changes.  Nothing is new and there is definitely no new crusade against kiting.  Maps are just changing as they always have.  If you don't believe me, look at the post date of the first post in this thread.  As mentioned before, it has been a full year.

[~CM~Snow_White/Nightmare]

You're right Winter but, maps like Swadian Overgrown are unkiteable for player under an Equiepment of Ulrs Bane,EK,Full Royal Scale,And Ebony. What i want to say is that players like my friend (SS Bow,Worm Bane) can't kill Royal Assassins anymore. Thats why i wanted the Royal Assassins a bit slower and now on "new" maps like Swadian Overgrown they catch him in a few seconds, it's not the fault of his aim but he needs 2Headshots to kill One of them. Is that fair? I know that SS Bow got Stronger already and a pair weapons as well, so i would say a pair group of bots should get slower.

Thank you for reading and kind Regards,

Twisty

[Madjosh]

You're right Winter but, maps like Swadian Overgrown are unkiteable for player under an Equiepment of Ulrs Bane,EK,Full Royal Scale,And Ebony. What i want to say is that players like my friend (SS Bow,Worm Bane) can't kill Royal Assassins anymore.

The gear is not the main issue at hand. kiting for the large part used to come down to skill, and a nice loop to run around. unfortunately, there are scant loops left in this new map update that allow for clear pathing of the bots where they don't bunch up and stay eventually waiting for you to return to them during your kite.

Since the beginning, the maps have always been changing and evolving.  Old spots are blocked off and new ones are made.  The same is true of kiting paths.  This thread was made ages ago (over a full year! :O)

While cade spots have and are always being evolved for the better, you can't argue that this has been the same for kiting paths on the most part. sure, it's been over year, but i can't say that during that year the issues brought in this thread have been addressed. for the most part, it seems like people just got richer, allowing them to kite more effectively on the crippled kitting maps. CTS used to beat heavy huscarls. now the only people i see trying their hand at the art of the kite are people with access to legendary ranged weapons. kiting should be viable for all, not just those with end game equipment.

it is just changing up the maps to keep the game a little more fresh and exciting.  Wouldn't it be boring if a map would be changed to be very easy and then just stay that way forever?  It would kind of defeat the purpose of playing on other maps until they were also made very easy, but then everything would just be very easy.  It makes more sense, in my opinion, to switch up maps and have some easy, some hard, and change the maps and spots every so often.

every one loves seeing new maps, but the changes made this update aren't changes at all. They are obvious nerfs. Swadian old village used to be a decent map that was accepted in the map rotation but never sought out as a fantastic map for any runs. since the addition of a clumsly placed wooden blockade over what was arguably one of the most inventive scene areas in NI's map collection not to mention the ONLY viable cadeing spot on the map, I would guess that it will rarely see any action until changes are made to renege the butchery that has been done to it. on another note, changes to maps are not just the players concern. but also the mappers/scene makers who spend vast amounts of personal hours to creating beautiful maps for NI. i won't mention the hours that a certain mapper put into creating the aforementioned scene on old village, but that was all scrapped when this patch was created. NI does a fantastic job of giving recognition where recognition is due. however, these maps are also the intellectual property of someone who spent hard worked hours into creating something for the community. i think we should all consider the mappers who's hard work is also being affected by such map changes.

winter makes the point of maps changing to add some diversity into the game and keep it from going stale, which is true and i think most if not all can agree upon this fact. however, it would be nice to see some of the classic and loved maps remain the same and changes be made to other areas of the game such as the Nord Troop Tree, which has remained the same for longer than memory serves me. Afterall, some of the most sucessfull games such as call of duty and battlefield have some classic maps, which are never changed and are constantly added into their new titles just because they are so good. and i know that NI has had in the past some great maps worthy of the same honour.

I'm not having a dig at winter infact i agree with most of what he's written, but since he's the only dev that's taken the time to speak his mind on the matter it's only fair we (the NI community) respond with some ideas and thoughts on the subject. afterall it is a community run game and while the devs do most of the work, the community does help out with a large part in other areas aswell so it is only fair that their views be taken into serious consideration rather than being told to nick off and that this isn't the game for you.

[Bobo]

I am pretty sure the opinion of the community is always carefully considered by the devs team. Thanks for remarks and explanation Winter. That's pretty much true maps should evolve so we face new challenges and not get bored with routine. For myself, I am always pretty much excited to see map changes so thanks to map makers for their efforts, we really do appreciate.

In general I think we have no controversies about abovementioned however we have a proverb in Poland "The devil is in details". So down to the details I will maintain my opinion that recent changes perhaps go a bit too far in making many maps really difficult for kiters while this playstyle remains beloved by many players of this great mod.

PS. I am not a kiter myself, lacking a lot in skill for being successful in it so I feel better behind cade. Still, it's pretty true one wants to play when servers either full / empty or team missing cades and then kiting remains the only way until more ppl join.

[darklit]

Thats why i wanted the Royal Assassins a bit slower and now on "new" maps like Swadian Overgrown they catch him in a few seconds, it's not the fault of his aim but he needs 2Headshots to kill One of them. Is that fair?

Twisty

The bots are not supposed to balanced for kiting. You are not supposed to be able to easily beat wave 20 on any given mode. 2 head shots is perfectly reasonable given the wave they spawn on ( 8 ).

This is a team play mod. Not a kiting mod, and the bots will be balanced as such.